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Old 08-03-2016, 12:46   #31
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

When shopping for our boat we look.d for one with out of date electronic s so we could replace with what we wanted..took a while but in the end we found her..i would list it the way she is and let new owner add what they want..
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Old 08-03-2016, 14:22   #32
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

I can't speak to market value, but I would rather buy a boat with outdated gear at a reduced price. Then I could upgrade to exactly what I want.
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Old 08-03-2016, 14:40   #33
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

just my opinion, but i would rather buy the stuff that i like for the boat and pay the lower price from you rather than have you choose what stuff i will want on the boat
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Old 08-03-2016, 14:49   #34
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

^^^^Thank you for that, scubano. I quite agree.

Count me down as agreeing with Boatie.

Quote:
Electronics? Leave for them to upgrade to their choice.
- Electrics? ditto
- Interior Lights? ditto
- Nav station panel? Why?
- Entertainment system? No
- Cushions and Upholstery?
Not even these, but, if they really look bad, so that the boat won't show well, then perhaps. My personal inclination would be to be up front with the buyers, and say it needs re-doing, and you will either do it, or take the cost off the price. Get 3 estimates to show them why you will not do more. Many boats have everything matching--same foam, same upholstery, and you'll be surprised how much it will cost if jobbed out. Others have different fabrics different places. It could actually be to your advantage to do this yourselves.

As an outside comment, at the heart of all this is whether or not you need a "much larger boat" when you said you'd be comfortable to set off now in the Caliber as she is. Sometimes we want the bigger boat so as to accommodate guests. How that worked out for us was that we overestimated our venue's attraction for guests, their ability to take time off, and their desire/ability to pay for flights halfway 'round the world. When we got the bigger boat, it was our kids and grandkids we wanted to host, and they had lives of their own. Fancy that.

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Old 08-03-2016, 22:34   #35
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
You will never recoup the cost of upgrades except 2 conditions:

1. Cleaning.
2. Replacing an irreparable engine.

Replacing dated equipment is a poor investment on your part. Putting in a fairly cheap chartplotter to match your instruments may help to avoid a "lacking" objection.

Replacing dated electrics and electronics that work fine, solely for someone else to enjoy at your expense would be kind, but a poor investment in your part.

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+1 on most of this. I recently retired, and the wife and I have just gone through this process. We sold our smaller sailboat and moved up to something similar to just what you are selling (a PSC 40). So presuming we represented part of your target buying group; here's my 2 cents, with the wife's input as well.

- It needs to be clean; including the head and the interior. If the cushions are stained or really dirty - get them cleaned. Waxing and polishing will certainly get a nod and make buyers give a second look (like curb appeal for a house sale).
- Everything needs to be in working order. This doesn't mean new, but whatever the prospective buyer tries out should work in an acceptable manner. Lack of that may lead them to think that maintenance was not done elsewhere.
- I mostly agree with the 'keep the electronics as they are' mantra with one exception. I agree with ramblinrod that a chartplotter may make a difference. A lot of prospective buyers (even old retired folks) are used to using lcd screens with multiple functions and would view a color chartplotter as a minimum; many would never change it. Ours came with a Raymarine E80; definitely an older model, but it is an LCD; integrated w/gps, radar, etc; in color; and accepts current navigation chips. Perhaps you could get a good used one and put it in? For those folks that may not be as versed as a lot of the people here on CF, it gives the buyer an opportunity to go out and use the boat as is, without having to decide on replacing the existing instruments which are working fine.
- Ours came with a lot of boat records. To me it showed that the previous owner had put some effort and $$ into the maintenance of the boat and that was a big +.

Hope this helps
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:57   #36
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Smokey's Kitchen said: "- Ours came with a lot of boat records. To me it showed that the previous owner had put some effort and $$ into the maintenance of the boat and that was a big +."

I forgot to ask about that and am glad he mentioned it.

I keep DETAILED records about boat maintenance and usage. I mean EVERYTHING! I can tell you when I replaced a light bulb and how long it lasted.

I built a MS/ACCESS database system to track maintenance. Every item, no matter how small, has been noted in that database since spring 2001. There are over 1,000 entries and 5,000 line items showing:
- initial symptoms
- my diagnostic procedures and tests
- my repair procedures
- notes about future prevention and avoidance of the same problem
- labor cost
- parts cost
- duration of problem

The database can be sorted by date, system, component, cost, open/closed, duration of problem, and other ways that I've forgotten.

Every record is date/time stamped. Some of the notes are not flattering to my skills or thought process. Reading them now makes me wonder what I was thinking as I dealt with the problems.

Will the details of maintenance scare a prospective buyer when they read my thoughts about little noises or smells in the boat? Will they freak out as I detail, over a period of 30-days the trials and tribulations of replacing the Yanmar cooling system?

I am very proud of how I built and maintained every system on the boat and am perfectly willing to share that info - but is it TMI? At what point in the selling process do I offer to show the buyer the maintenance data?

I initially installed every piece of equipment when we purchased the boat new and have upgraded or rebuilt every piece in the 21-years we've owned the boat. At what point do my details scare the prospective purchaser?


I have a similar Access tracking system for underway navigation and at anchor information, i.e. and electronic log. Every time I ran the engine or moved the boat I carefully noted all kinds of details.
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:34   #37
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pirate Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

To the Seller.. present the boat as best you can.. list the working equipment and condition/age and value it where you feel it stands against similar boats on the market.. but always remember.. a boat is truly only worth what a buyer is prepared to pay.

To a Buyer.. follow due diligence.. and if you buy a pig in poke knowing or suspecting that it is.. or through sheer ignorance.. its your fault.
One cannot make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.. just stick Elaine Paige in the stereo and work to the strains of 'Don't Cry for Me'.
Boat value.. unlike house's are on a one way street.. going down..





mind.. I'll still bitch about it..
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:55   #38
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Sell it as is. You'll make much more $$$.

There is no way buying a huge electronics package, etc will increase the selling price enough to cover itself.

A boat is worth what the hull is worth, not the equipment list.

The only thing an upgrade like you describe might do is get it to sell a little faster... a little. It won't sell for more.

The cleaning is important. Bilges too.

Have everything workng.

You can live aboard while selling. No big deal. Just be very neat. Much less expensive than an apartment.

Source? I've sold my 4 previous boats for as much or more than I paid for them.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:35   #39
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Tacoma,

That detailed maintenance log would be worth paying more for. I wouldn't hand out the information, just add it to the listing and make it available at sea trial/survey. Details like this in my eyes can easily push a boat up the 'what's it worth list.'
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:55   #40
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

A Caliber 40 is the boat I'm going to buy. I would much prefer to do the upgrades myself - choose the equipment upgrades, priorities, oversee installations, etc - than to know a seller was guessing at what to upgrade. Is your boat still available?
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Old 27-03-2016, 16:39   #41
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

I am always very impressed with how neat and orderly the electrical systems look.
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Old 27-03-2016, 16:51   #42
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradpb View Post
I am always very impressed with how neat and orderly the electrical systems look.
you should probably hire this electrician for your house then!
How to tell if you electrician has OCD - Don't Hate The Geek
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Old 27-03-2016, 18:10   #43
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

If I were the buyer I would not care about your upgrades and I would gladly accept a discount.

I think others may feel otherwise. Personal thing.

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Old 27-03-2016, 19:14   #44
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Agree on electronics. I tend to be minimalist in terms of "best and brightest" so would likely prefer the discount.

I would use semco system on your teak as easiest way to make it look bright and clean. I know silver teak is natural, but it always says neglect to me when I see it as a buyer. Better yet in appearance would be to use cetol light x 2 coats then cetol gloss x 2 coats for near varnish quality. Will make a huge difference in appearance...


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Old 27-03-2016, 20:36   #45
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Re: Upgrade before selling or discount sale price?

Like Smokeys Kitchen, I am your target market, and I have looked at many boats recently.
I think that every comment/post sofar is a valid one and the consensus seems to be:
- present it clean
- make sure everything works
- do not do expensive upgrades, pre-sale

I think most boat buyers,.... hmmm, just speaking for myself maybe..... changing from the 3rd person to 1st.

When inspecting a boat for sale, I will look at these things, more or less in this order:
- Does this boat type fit my requirements, ie size, draft, cabins, layout, storage, sailplan, sailing qualities, steering position
- Condition of integral items? ie hull, deck, tanks, bilges, chainplates, rudder, keel (particularly if that is lifting or swinging), teak deck (although not really integral, but a pain to fix both in $$ and time)
- Condition of big ticket items that can be more easily replaced, ie rigging, sails, engine, winches, refrigeration, electronics, groundtackle
- What is the quality of the installation of the various systems, ie electrical, batteries, plumbing, fuel, LPG, bilge pumps, seacocks/valves, steering, windlass, hydraulics (if any), heating/cooling
- How well the boat is maintained (diagrams and manuals are a big bonus)
- How well the boat present itself (eye appeal)
- How much 'fruit' it has ie. dinghy, outboard, watermaker, genset, diving gear, solarpanels, windvane, covers, in-date safety gear, spare parts
- Availability of documents: registration, LPG/240V certificates, ownership etc.

And with every of the above points, if the answer is a strong negative one I will walk away.
If the answer is not as black and white, I asked myself if the asking price is a valid one, and if not, I make a mental note that a new price need to be negotiated based on the not-so-positive answers. And maybe with every negative point, the price is slowly reduced in my mind.

Back to Tacoma:
Maybe the climate for selling is not a good one right now, however by not spending much money on it, this might allow you set a lower asking price which will certainly attract more potential buyers, and thus sell the boat a lot quicker.

And one more point, this thread is a great selling tool!!! You present it very well.
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