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Old 25-10-2009, 17:05   #1
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Two Questions for San Diego Boaters

In an attempt to gather some information that may help educate SF Bay Area boaters, I have two questions that I hope San Diego area boaters will take the time to answer:

1.- How often do you have a diver clean your hull?

2.- How often do you haul for new anti fouling paint?

Thanks.
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Old 25-10-2009, 17:37   #2
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Well, that depends whether you would be moored in Mission Bay or the S.D. Harbor. The water is warmer in Mission Bay and does not circulate as much.
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Old 25-10-2009, 18:04   #3
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I know the two areas do not differ significantly in their accepted hull cleaning regimens. San Diego, Mission Bay, Point Loma, it doesn't matter. If you keep a boat in the San Diego region, I'd like to know your hull cleaning and bottom painting frequencies. Thanks.
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Old 25-10-2009, 18:23   #4
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I kept my old wooden Pacemaker 38 in Mission Bay and I took it out diving about every weekend. Around ever 3 months I would dive down and clean the bottom by hand. And it took about two years before needing bottom paint again.

For boats that don't travel much I suspect the bottoms would get fouled within 6 months if not taken care of. Fresh bottom paint would only last around 6 months before sea life started its thing. The algae would be the first to attach.

But things may have changed in the past 30 years with G.W. and all.
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Old 25-10-2009, 18:56   #5
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I appreciate the response, I really do, but I'm kinda looking for data that's a little more current than 30-years-old.
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Old 25-10-2009, 19:16   #6
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The Port of San Diego has been conducting studies for the last couple years on bottom paint and cleaning regimens. I'll try to get the website for their findings. I last hauled in June 2007. My diver cleans every three weeks in summer, four weeks in winter. I need to repaint in the next few months. San Diego is especially proactive in this area of bottom paint study.
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Old 25-10-2009, 19:39   #7
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I get mine cleaned every 4 weeks, and we repaint every 18-24 months. In my last slip arrangement we had more sunlight hitting below the waterline, so growth was more of a problem.
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Old 25-10-2009, 19:41   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
In an attempt to gather some information that may help educate SF Bay Area boaters, I have two questions that I hope San Diego area boaters will take the time to answer:
.
This seems spamish. The person posting the question has a direct commercial interest in the question. At the very least, that interest should be expressed up front.

MY ANSWER: SF Bay boaters don't need to hire divers as often as SD boaters. Our water is colder and fresher.
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Old 25-10-2009, 20:14   #9
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This seems spamish. The person posting the question has a direct commercial interest in the question. At the very least, that interest should be expressed up front.

MY ANSWER: SF Bay boaters don't need to hire divers as often as SD boaters. Our water is colder and fresher.
Here is my reason for posting this question: SF Bay boaters typically have their bottoms cleaned every three months. This is too infrequent, in the opinion of the organization I represent, the California Professional Divers Association (based in San Diego, BTW.) Our position is that SF Bay Area boaters should be having thier hulls cleaned every two months. The reason being that on a 3-month schedule, the diver cannot use the softest cleaning pad to remove fouling growth. He must use a more abrasive pad. This, of course, removes more paint than a softer pad does. But the argument SF boaters will often use against more frequent cleanings is that it damages the paint and shortens its lifespan. San Diego boaters have their boats cleaned about 14 times a year (as opposed to the 4 cleanings per year typical here), yet frequently still get 3 years out of a bottom job which directly refutes the argument often heard here.

I am perfectly aware of the hull cleaning practices used in San Diego but I need some real-world anecdotes to back up my premise to SF boaters that increased hull cleaning frequencies are actually environmentally and financially beneficial to them.
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Old 25-10-2009, 21:54   #10
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We bought our boat on 12/2009 in San Francisco, and it surveyed with a fresh bottom paint. The bottom is cleaned every four weeks, and according to two different divers the bottom paint still looks good...althought the copper is probably gone. I'm of the opinion that if the bottom is cleaned regularly, bottom paints will last a long time. If the bottom is cleaned often it doesn't have to protect against organisms, because it's been cleaned often. If I was going to be gone for a few months, then the bottom of our boat would collect organisms fast because of the lack of copper now...that's what I think.
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Old 25-10-2009, 22:26   #11
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according to two different divers the bottom paint still looks good...althought the copper is probably gone.
What makes you think your paint's copper is depleted?
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Old 26-10-2009, 00:55   #12
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I keep my boat in the Shelter Island area of San Diego Bay. In 2004, I had the boat hauled and painted with Pro-line ablative paint - 3 full coats and a 4th coat on the leading edges, water line and rudder. The hull is cleaned by a diver once every 3 weeks in the warm months and once every 4 weeks in colder months. In 2008, we hauled again but this time I painted with Sea Hawk's Mission Bay paint, a zinc-based ablative, again covering with 3 full coats and the 4th around the edges, water line, etc. With the same cleaning schedule, the paint didn't last 18 months. I just hauled again last month and did the same paint routine with InterLux Ultra Kote. We'll see what happens.
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Old 26-10-2009, 10:43   #13
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Here's some background info regarding Southern California, and San Diego, specifically, awareness of the effects of bottom paint: SeaGrant - Nontoxic Bottom Paint Demonstration

The California Professional Divers Association members in San Diego (especially my own diver, Bruce) are employing techniques that provide us with smooth bottoms, yet release the minimum of biocide into the water. They swim in the stuff, so they have a vested interest in keeping things as healthy as possible for all of the critters. I don't see this as spamish behavior, more as an attempt to get the folks up north to recognize the compromise between the amount of elbow grease needed to clean a foul bottom, and cost of elbow grease expended annually. We must be greener in San Diego, meaning more liberal in our willingness to spend the green to keep the green environment.
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Old 26-10-2009, 11:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
In an attempt to gather some information that may help educate SF Bay Area boaters, I have two questions that I hope San Diego area boaters will take the time to answer:

1.- How often do you have a diver clean your hull?

2.- How often do you haul for new anti fouling paint?

Thanks.
if you paint now---no cleaning for at least 3 months then have someone wipe it with carpet for one year--or take out the boat and sail it.....works....if you use trinidad sr you donot have to have hull cleaned if you use boat regularly--saves money. your boat is glass over wood or just plywood or cold molded wood--should be out for paint every 2-3 yrs at longest.....gooood luck....( i have had more than one haul out for paint and underwater cleaners of all types in san diego over the past many years--is alll goood)----enjoy your boat.....

once you start with a diver, it takes every 4 weeks to keep it clean of slime and barnacles....
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Old 26-10-2009, 15:11   #15
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The California Professional Divers Association members in San Diego (especially my own diver, Bruce) are employing techniques that provide us with smooth bottoms, yet release the minimum of biocide into the water. They swim in the stuff, so they have a vested interest in keeping things as healthy as possible for all of the critters. I don't see this as spamish behavior, more as an attempt to get the folks up north to recognize the compromise between the amount of elbow grease needed to clean a foul bottom, and cost of elbow grease expended annually.
Roy hits the nail on the head on more than one count with his post. But the CPDA's interest in reducing in-water hull cleaning's impact on the environment goes way beyond just not wanting to swim in a cuprous oxide soup. We are trying to protect our livelihoods and the boater's ability to have his hull cleaned in his slip or at a mooring. There is a piece of regulation being put forward by the State that would make it very easy for the hull cleaning business to go the way of the pony express, steam engine and the dodo bird. It's called the "Coastal Marinas Permit" and it essentially puts the onus on individual marina operators to make sure the water in their marinas meets federally mandated quality criteria. The Permit would allow for stiff penalties if a marina cannot meet these criteria (go to www.rboc.org for an overview and draft of the Permit program.) Imagine how easy it would be for a marina to ban in-water hull cleaning if they were having a problem meeting the criteria for copper.

In any event, CPDA members are trained in the use of a set of Best Management Practices designed to reduce the amount of copper in-water hull cleaning activities release into the water and extend the lifespan of the customer's anti fouling paint. Primary among these BMPs is to clean the boat using gentlest method possible. This means having the boat cleaned frequently. In San Diego, you are already doing this. You generally have your boat cleaned 14 times per year. This means your diver can always use the softest pad or carpet or diaper to clean the hull, as the hull never gets very foul. Less copper is released into the water and an additional benefit is that you generally can go 3 years between haulouts.

Here in the Bay Area, it is a different story. Bottoms are cleaned only 4 times a year typically. This frequency of service allows the hull to become relatively foul; requiring something considerably more abrasive than the softest pad to clean the boat. As a result, more copper is scrubbed out of the paint and boaters usually must haul every 2 years for new paint.

The CPDA feels that for the Bay Area, 6 cleanings per year is the magic number. This frequency of service in almost all cases would enable the diver to use carpet or a white pad to clean the bottom. This is better for the environment and would reduce the need for new anti fouling paint to every 3 years. The savings there alone would offset the increased hull cleaning costs by thousands of dollars over a ten year period for a 30-foot boat (savings increase as the boat gets bigger), not to mention better performance under sail and power and reduced fuel consumption and carbon emissions throughout the year.

Our challange is to educate not only Bay Area boaters, but divers as well, that this simple change in the boating culture here will not only bring a healthier environment but save the client money and protect the diver's job to boot. To that end I posted my original two questions.
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