Cruisers Forum

Join CruisersForum Today

Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-06-2009, 20:48   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 40
Never, never, add up what it really cost.

Norm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2009, 18:15   #17
Registered User
redcobra's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Towson, MD Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Pearson 39 Yawl "ZigZag"
Posts: 516
From above #6
"Don't work when you are tired."

redcobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2009, 18:58   #18
CF Adviser
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 5,388
For my own boat, doing most of the work myself, my advice is pretty much similar (except for a few of DOJ’s…) however as a professional owner’s rep for super yachts dealing with Yards and Subcontractors here are a few golden rules that I have acquired over the years.

  • Always negotiate fixed costs before they haul you out!

  • Develop a very detailed “scope of work” before you meet with the yard and have them quote on a fixed cost for line by line job with labor and materials including a “Not to Exceed” clause, for jobs where there may be some latent defects….. Straight “Time and Material” type quotes give no incentive to the yard and you are at their mercy!

  • Include all optional jobs in this negotiation because this is the time to have them sharpen their pencil.

  • Before work begins, have all “owner’s supply” plus critical yard supply equipment on hand to study ‘as is” installation issues while looking at the physical reality.

  • Keep a daily time log of individual yard personnel and the work achieved that day by them on your boat, so as to counter any additional “not to exceed claims”. Often a wrong part is ordered by the yard, but the worker still reports to your boat (at your cost) and waits there until discovered…

  • Post clear and strong ground rules for Trespassers/ Smoking / Shoes / Carrying Tools at the entrance and politely enforce it!

  • Never get into an argument with a yard worker, (He who holds the hammer), if his work ethic and performance is poor. Privately talk to his boss and get him off the boat. If his supervisor has no replacement, put it in writing and take photos of the substandard work. (You will be amazed how quickly that ethic changes and you never need to raise your voice)

  • At the end of the job…..throw a party and buy the beers for the guys who did it……remember…there will always be a next time!
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 03:42   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fiji
Boat: Westsail - CC - 42
Posts: 337
Buy the most expensive stuff first. If you save those puchases till last there is a good chance you'll never finish!
Fair Winds
dkall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 04:01   #20
Registered User
Portobello's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hobart
Boat: Portobello - a Walter Knoop designed "DOVEN 30"
Posts: 231
Images: 5
Have a good mate who can hand you the right sized spanner when you are folded up in some ridiculous space or who can stop the screw from turning on the outside when you are doing up the nut on the inside and who you can share a beer with at the end of the day!
Love the journey!
Portobello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 05:18   #21
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eastern Seaboard
Boat: Searunner 34 and Searunner Constant Camber 44
Posts: 949
Tradesmen are salesmen: expect overly optimistic comments to come from them

It will cost more than you think; plan on double

It will take longer than you think; plan on twice as long if you’re diligent and efficient, more if you’re not

It will not turn out perfect and it doesn’t need to be perfect -- just good enough to bet the lives of you, your family, friends, etc on

If you’re doing your own interior work, stockpile lots of cardboard and make mockups

It only takes one injury to kill your dreams of sailing. Protect yourself without fail

Do the remedial stuff and safety stuff first (so you can get the boat in the water if you want), the should-do and maintenance stuff second (to help prevent having higher costs from neglect) and the sexy upgrades last

Don’t try to save money or time by cutting corners; do it right the first time

Document and label everything

If you think it’s worth it, then it’s worth it.


The sea is always beautiful, sometimes mysterious and, on occasions, frighteningly powerful.
Maren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 05:24   #22
Registered User
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,352
Images: 2
If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it. Go sailing instead!
Ziggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 16:32   #23
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
More suggestions...

1) Make sure you get it right the second time...
2) Only buy as much paint as you are going to need. Small tins are more expensive per litre but large tins going off are expensive, time consuming and frustrating.
3) Lockgrip pliers are great for holding nuts that you can't reach as you tighten the bolt (or vice versa). The cheap ones seem to work just fine. Two is better as they always seem to be in the wrong place. Yellow handles make them easier to find.
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 17:08   #24
Armchair Bucketeer
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
As we seem to also be doing tools.........

Screwdrivers you can also put a spanner on.

A length of wood, say around 2 foot long and 4x2 - a poor mans Workbench - useful to drill into and hit things against (with ).

Molegrips (for holding yer nuts when out of reach )
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 17:30   #25
Registered User
Microship's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: living aboard in Friday Harbor, WA
Boat: Amazon 44
Posts: 699
Images: 7
Oooh, good topic. They bubble out faster than I can write them down!

Never hire a guy who hates his work... I'm still fixing messes left by the plumber-from-hell.

DIY should always be first choice unless the job requires highly specialized/expensive tools or esoteric skills.

To-Do lists are fractal. The closer you zoom into one item, the more it expands into a whole collection of component items. I try to anticipate this with what I call "CDTs," or Clearly Defined Tasks. Writing these out ahead of time may seem like over-detailing, but pays off when it helps avoid gross underestimation of time and costs.

Project management tools can make or break a job. I like OmniFocus since you can list by projects and then review by contexts (like, "what do I need to do next time I'm aboard with wiring tools all spread out?"). And Scrivener is very useful for keeping the sprawling collection of design documents in one cohesive environment... before that, I had stray files everywhere.

If a project requires (n) components, there will be (n-1) units in stock. I agree fully with the person above who suggested buying in bulk... and besides, you end up with repair inventory and trade goods. For hardware, McMaster-Carr is spectacular.

Tool duplication between home and boat is unavoidable. You'll end up needing 'em anyway. Expensive tools are usually good investments, though they sink just as fast as cheap ones. No shame in using a lanyard when leaning over the rail. The new Li-Ion Makita power tools are awesome.

Document, document, document! Buy a cable-labeling machine (I like the IDpal from Brady) and ID every cable as it is identified. Take the time to do good drawings (I use OmniGraffle Pro for overall diagrams, and Eagle for detailed schematics). Start a binder for the known-correct information that you will want to be able to find again... sprinkled throughout project notebooks and random scraps, it gets lost. Dedicate portable file boxes to manuals and individual projects. Use your digital camera to chase otherwise invisible mysteries, and save the images. Take photos before closing off an area so you will know later where not to drill.

Save labeled core samples from hole-saw adventures.

Cheers from Nomadness,
S/V Nomadness
Nomadic Research Labs
Microship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2009, 19:36   #26
Senior Cruiser
maxingout's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Pierce, Phoenix
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,367
This thread is a great reminder to factor in the real expense of boat ownership when you make an offer on a yacht.

I tend to make low ball offers on yachts because when I survey them, I calulate the cost of making the yacht the way I would like it to be.

I start with what I think the yacht would be worth (what I could sell it for) if it was in excellent condition. Then I calculate the cost of refitting the vessel. I deduct the cost of the refit from what the vessel would be worth in excellent condition after the refit.

The result is what I am willing to offer for the yacht.

I don't like making low ball offers, but I dislike losing money even more.
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2009, 03:51   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fiji
Boat: Westsail - CC - 42
Posts: 337
Wow! If I had done that the owner would have had to pay me to take the boat.

You may get a boat; and you may not loose ( I kind of doubt it) any money; but I'd be surprised if you would get the boat you really want and the boat you think is best for you and your family. But "Oh Well"; I guess it's a little like the ol' song "If you can't be with the one you love; love the one you're with". (grin)
Fair Winds
dkall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2009, 03:21   #28
Registered User
sctpc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: saga kan walker 31ft
Posts: 545
Send a message via Skype™ to sctpc
buy two off everything. parts are cheep when you dont need them but if you need them away from home they seem to be 4 times the price.
And never buy cheep power tools they will always cast more as eventually you will get sick off replacing them and buy the industrial one anyway.
May there always be water under your boat,

sctpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2009, 06:20   #29
Registered User
RikHall's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Boat: Irwin Citation 34 - Mystery
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Portobello View Post
Have a good mate who can hand you the right sized spanner when you are folded up in some ridiculous space
My good mate is so good she knows a spanner, a Philips head, a Robinson head, metric and imperial - I do not know what I would do without her!

I love you Linda!
RikHall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2009, 06:25   #30
Registered User
RikHall's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Boat: Irwin Citation 34 - Mystery
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post

2) Use eye protection. Breathing protection is also important as is hearing protection.
From the guy with hearing aids in both ears (me):

The decibels and pitch from a saw is what caused my hearing loss. Your hearing without hearing aids is probably WAY better than mine with hearing aides.

I know ear protection is hot, and the muffs are never where you are - but believe me mate - they are worth it!


RikHall is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lap top vs desk top Ativa Construction, Maintenance & Refit 51 27-12-2014 06:58
Top Ten Disasters that Never Happened ! maxingout Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 22 13-12-2010 09:41
Around in Ten Tellie Challenges 0 17-11-2008 02:52
Ten-Tom jimisbell Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 22 14-09-2008 10:05
Top Ten Capct Powered Boats 0 12-03-2007 20:22

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2015 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:59.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.