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Old 22-09-2018, 15:57   #1
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Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Aloha!

I'm repairing the deck, topside paint and non-skid on Caelestis. She is 24 years old and we are considering other options for new non-skid.

Hull is balsa & fiberglass core with fairing compound layer on top of the fiberglass. When we purchased Caelestis, she had a good amount of the deck delaminating from the fiberglass below it. We repaired all the delimitated spots but over the past 10 years, time and heat has caused other areas to delaminate from the fiberglass below it. I can only conclude that there could have been a better mechanical bond between the two when the boat was built. The cancer (delamination) will be an issue for the remaining life of the boat and we have resigned ourselves to that fact. It is what it is.

I'm faced with the reality that there will be other areas of delamination in the future.

Our non-skid is currently a LP paint layer with broadcasted sand and another layer of LP paint on top of the sand.

Here is my conundrum. Every time there is delamination over a non-skid area of the deck, we have to chisel out the cancer and fill the hole, sand and contour it, prime it and replace the non-skid in some capacity. Original plan was to repeat the paint, sand, paint, like we did 10 years ago. But, knowing that areas of delamination will to continue to happen, I wanted to get other opinions in the non-skid market.

Yesterday, while in West Marine, I met Dave, the inventor of Marine Grip that is made by surfcohawaii.com. His product was originally a substitute for wax on surfboards but has since expanded his product line into the marine industry for non-skid applications. The Marine Grip comes in a clear and semitransparent gray. The clear Marine Grip is 90% transparent and shows the color you just applied it over. The gray Marine Grip is about 25% transparent lets a little color come through.

Because future delamination repairs are inevitable, I want to use a non-skid application that is most practical and time saving. Reapplying a paint based non-skid and blending it into the existing non-skid is not appealing to me at all. So, I’m looking at adhesive options.

I believe I have two basic options:
Option #1: Continue with paint/sand/paint non-skid and deal with blending issues and color matching, etc. with every repaired area of delamination. Right now there are so many areas on the deck that have been repaired, it only makes sense to redo the entire topside from bow to stern. See pictures.

Option #2: Apply an adhesive based product like Marine Grip or one like it. To apply an adhesive, I would have to either sand the existing non-skid down to a smooth surface OR apply a very thin layer of fairing over the non-skid and then sand to a smooth surface, apply a primer coat, apply a top coat color, then finally apply the adhesive non-skid. Sanding the non-skid down with an aggressive sander would chew through a lot of sand paper. LP paints are very hard…but it’s an option.

The advantage I see with the adhesive non-skid is that it’s easier to replace once it’s on the deck. There aren’t any color or texture blending issues. A new delamination just has to be cut out, filled, sanded, primed, painted and adhesive non-skid replaced.

I don’t like the gray or other dark colored adhesive non-skid due to the darkness. It would absorb more heat and may lead to other areas of accelerated delamination. Gray does hide dirt better though.

The clear adhesive non-skid would need a light color (powder blue) under it and would reflect more heat and keep the boat cooler. But would also show dirt over time.

Plan: Get feedback from users on this thread and subscribe to Practical Sailor to see if they have some reviews on adhesive non-skid.

Thanks everyone for your feedback ahead of time.

Matt


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Old 22-09-2018, 16:05   #2
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

A bit of additional information will be helpful...

You say the "deck is delaminating from the fiberglass underneath it."

Can you explain this more clearly? What exactly is "delaminating" from what?

Your deck is a layer of fiberglass, a layer of balsa, another layer of fiberglass... and... then something else?
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Old 22-09-2018, 16:08   #3
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Hull is balsa core with fiber glass layer and then contouring compound followed by primer and then paint.

The contouring compound layer on top of the fiberglass is delaminating due to age and heat. Eventually the deck cracks and the moisture gets under the compound layer and the cancer just spreads faster.

I found Treadmaster and Seadek adhesive non-skid

The Treadmaster require a two part glue application. Not too crazy about that.

Seadek is just a peel and place application.

Is there anyone out there using the Seadek? If so, how long have you been using it? What do you think?
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Old 22-09-2018, 16:41   #4
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

There is another route to consider: We have glass/epoxy over ply decks which originally had LPU sprayed with grit as non-skid. Lasted about 12 years from launch, then lost too much grip for safety.

Our method was to use an industrial decking material called "Colourmatic Sportscote". This is a water based coating that you roll on with a textured roller, and y ou have control over the degree of harshness in the finish. It goes on quite easily, and required only a light scuffing with 40 grit followed by a washdown with soap and water, dry and roll on. The resultant non-skid is by far the best I've ever encountered, both wet and dry, barefoot and shod... really good performance. It is now some 8 years old, and most is still original. Its major drawback is that it is hard to clean, and being that it is very easy to apply, I've renewed the cockpit seats a couple of times, just for cosmetic reasons.

Another good point is that it is CHEAP. Like 190 AUD for a 17 liter pail, which was enough for two full deck applicatons on our ~46 foot boat. So, I've got enough left to re-do the whole thing if I ever thought it necessary. It is an Aussie product and I dunno about availability elsewhere, but I'm sure that there are similar products in Hawaii and elsewhere. Look for industrial products for use on walkways or pool approaches.

IMO, this was one of the best decisions I've ever made in boat maintenance.

Jim
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Old 22-09-2018, 16:45   #5
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Thanks Jim. I see the value in finding a product that is outside the "Marine" industry for cost saving reasons. As sure as the sky is blue, there are products out there that do great but don't fall into the mainstream marine products. Thanks for your info!
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Old 22-09-2018, 20:30   #6
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Kiwi grip
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Old 23-09-2018, 09:02   #7
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

I second the "Kiwi-grip" advice. Spread it like you would dry wall compound, run over that with the plastic fenestrated 3" roller for the roughness you want, and clean up with water. Throw the roller in what's left in the can for touch up as needed in the high use areas of the deck or cockpit sole.

KiwiGrip | Non-Skid Coating
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Old 23-09-2018, 09:09   #8
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Sadly, my Google search for "Colourmatic Sportscote" yielded 2 results: ads for some good looking blazers and this CruisersForum post. I would love to get a hold of this stuff. Is it still available?
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Old 23-09-2018, 09:25   #9
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Our story is along the same line as Jim's.

There is no budget presently to replace our leaky teak decks. (Estimated replacement $40K) We wanted to buy some time so we could get out sailing anyway.

Bought "Rustoleum 10X" deck repair paint at Home Depot (US$90 for 5 gals). This product rolls on as non-skid (very rough surface). We ordered a custom color "Canvas" I think because we hate blinding white decks. The product recommends minimal surface prep so that's what we did with our foredeck with 2 coats. It was not a success. We could tell from the get-go that it would fail.

On the aft deck we did a lot of prep - sanding, wiping dust off with acetone, etc. We painted one coat and then while it was still wet-ish we cut fiberglass window screening and laid it in the first coat and let it sit until it was tacky. Then we laid the second "finish" coat on.

That was 3 years ago and there's no failures of the paint anywhere. I don't know how long it will last but for an investment of under US$300, we're pretty happy. There's also Rustoleum 2X and 5X - the five being less rough and the 2X smooth.

I have some pictures somewhere, I'll try to dig them out. But I'm pretty surprising satisfied. You'd have to do some research to find it's adherence to fiberglass decking.
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Old 23-09-2018, 09:49   #10
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

+2
for Kiwi grip I had to take a grinder to get the treadmaster off but did not need to go down to glass just smoothed the glue a bit but nothing to fancy then
kiwi gripped over it , it hid a lot of sins and has great grip
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Old 23-09-2018, 09:54   #11
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

About 7 years ago I painted over all my nonslip with Kiwi Grip. Since then it has help up perfectly and I am very pleased with the grip it offers and the ease with which is is applied. This past spring I repaired the rotten balsa core in my cockpit which involved removing 3/4 of the sole. Did all the work, repainted with Kiwi Grip and no one is the wiser that the repair was even done. Kiwi Grip is great because it's thickness and texture cover a multitude of flaws. This enables you to not have to bring the repaired surface to a perfect finish, reducing, time, effort and money spent on deck repairs. Through first hand experience, I highly recommend it.
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Old 23-09-2018, 09:59   #12
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Another for kiwigrip. Most importantly its not hot, even in the Florida summer sun.

https://youtu.be/0He3VCSRQ3Y to see the finished deck
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Old 23-09-2018, 11:09   #13
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Iím a huge Kiwi Grip fan.

Order white and have your local Sherwin Williams paint store (or similar) tint to any color you want.
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Old 23-09-2018, 13:12   #14
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Skip Alwgrip's nonskid grit. Paint stores like Sherwin Williams sell a grit that is almost identical for a fraction of Alwgrip's cost. Sand and shells are no good, sharp points on the grains will show wear quickly from foot traffic on the top coat. Use a round bead grit like Awlgrip's.

Your method is sound: coat of paint (slow cure) over a well prepped manageable area, broad cast grit until it looks dry, let paint cure, vacuum up grit, one or two topcoats.

Next time I'm thinking about using one-part paint and skipping the two-part LP. The one-part technology has come a long way.
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Old 23-09-2018, 13:49   #15
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Re: Top Side Non-skid Options - Marine Grip & Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuerrillaCamper View Post
Sadly, my Google search for "Colourmatic Sportscote" yielded 2 results: ads for some good looking blazers and this CruisersForum post. I would love to get a hold of this stuff. Is it still available?
Sorry... had the name slightly wrong. Try this one:
http://www.colormaker.com.au/wp-cont...-Tech-Data.pdf

Easily as good as Kiwi Grip, and VERY much less expensive.

Jim
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