Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-05-2016, 22:53   #16
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind River View Post
Does anyone know a good source for titanium fasteners?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Do you need one or a thousand?

Allied Titanium has some retain sales thru Amazon, or you can contact them directly for anything not there (the MOQ is pretty low). Fastenal, and Fasteners Inc also carry some, as does McMaster Carr.
__________________

__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2016, 23:19   #17
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Chain plates would require about 50, 1/2" - 13 with nuts. Also I would need 1/2 solid bar to make some extra long bolts, about 5 feet should be enough .
Thanks, I will check your sources. I found a several doing goggle searches but only a couple that list any pricing and they were very different from one another. .

Sent from my SM-G920V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2016, 10:27   #18
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Call the sales department at allied with a complete parts list. In the past they have made some custom bolt lengths, I would just ask them, or see if they have threaded rod.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2016, 13:07   #19
F10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Hawaii
Boat: S&S 34
Posts: 103
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
I had quite a bit of experience with Ti, when I did 6 sigma at ge aircraft engines.

I agree it has nice properties.

But it creates engineering challenges . . . . And high level yachting has struggles with those challenges. Just for example . . . . There were a whole bunch of tI ram failures in both Volvo and imoca, and a snapped off tI keel after only 10 days use (Marc Guillemot's ) keel that simply broke off. Most "forming" processes are difficult - welds are not good under load.

Frankly in aerospace, composites have replaced quite a bit of the Ti
I looked into the failures you bring up. From my limited internet research it seems the failures were due to design (and maybe also fabrication) errors. It seems that the failures were due to not designing the part to the full stress the part would see in service. There were also some keel failures on these boat and the keels were fabricated carbon steel. So it looks like Ti is not the problem- the problem is with adequate design. Looks like there was also some push to have these type of race boats have forged steel keels- super strong and most fabrication errors might be eliminated.

The problem is that what works for these once around high tech race boats and what will work for a cruiser or day sailor may not be the same. After all a well designed race boat will come in first, and then have everything break and sink just after crossing the finish line.

I see companies do sell Ti chain plates and other rigging gear. What I am looking for is any failures or things to look out for while using this material.
__________________
F10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2016, 13:32   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Well.... failure is always part of design. Design specifies material also. Many designs use a safety factor of 3. That is... if your allowable stress is say 30,000 psi, then you build for 90,000 psi.
Engineering is an imperfect science... why? because not all conditions or stresses are predictable. Remember the Americas Cup boat that broke in half and sank in light airs in San Diego? There were millions spent on engineering on that boat.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2016, 13:37   #21
F10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Hawaii
Boat: S&S 34
Posts: 103
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Well.... failure is always part of design. Design specifies material also. Many designs use a safety factor of 3. That is... if your allowable stress is say 30,000 psi, then you build for 90,000 psi.
Engineering is an imperfect science... why? because not all conditions or stresses are predictable. Remember the Americas Cup boat that broke in half and sank in light airs in San Diego? There were millions spent on engineering on that boat.
from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_of_safety

Choosing design factors[edit]

Appropriate design factors are based on several considerations, such as the accuracy of predictions on the imposed loads, strength, wear estimates, and the environmental effects to which the product will be exposed in service; the consequences of engineering failure; and the cost of over-engineering the component to achieve that factor of safety. For example, components whose failure could result in substantial financial loss, serious injury, or death may use a safety factor of four or higher (often ten). Non-critical components generally might have a design factor of two. Risk analysis, failure mode and effects analysis, and other tools are commonly used. Design factors for specific applications are often mandated by law, policy, or industry standards.
Buildings commonly use a factor of safety of 2.0 for each structural member. The value for buildings is relatively low because the loads are well understood and most structures are redundant. Pressure vessels use 3.5 to 4.0, automobiles use 3.0, and aircraft and spacecraft use 1.2 to 3.0 depending on the application and materials. Ductile, metallic materials tend to use the lower value while brittle materials use the higher values. The field of aerospace engineering uses generally lower design factors because the costs associated with structural weight are high (i.e. an aircraft with an overall safety factor of 5 would probably be too heavy to get off the ground). This low design factor is why aerospace parts and materials are subject to very stringent quality control and strict preventative maintenance schedules to help ensure reliability. A usually applied Safety Factor is 1.5, but for pressurized fuselage it is 2.0, and for main landing gear structures it is often 1.25.[11]
In some cases it is impractical or impossible for a part to meet the "standard" design factor. The penalties (mass or otherwise) for meeting the requirement would prevent the system from being viable (such as in the case of aircraft or spacecraft). In these cases, it is sometimes determined to allow a component to meet a lower than normal safety factor, often referred to as "waiving" the requirement. Doing this often brings with it extra detailed analysis or quality control verifications to assure the part will perform as desired, as it will be loaded closer to its limits.
For loading that is cyclical, repetitive, or fluctuating, it is important to consider the possibility of metal fatigue when choosing factor of safety. A cyclic load well below a material's yield strength can cause failure if it is repeated through enough cycles.
__________________
F10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2016, 13:40   #22
F10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Hawaii
Boat: S&S 34
Posts: 103
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Well.... failure is always part of design. Design specifies material also. Many designs use a safety factor of 3. That is... if your allowable stress is say 30,000 psi, then you build for 90,000 psi.
Engineering is an imperfect science... why? because not all conditions or stresses are predictable. Remember the Americas Cup boat that broke in half and sank in light airs in San Diego? There were millions spent on engineering on that boat.
Preaching to the choir. They just over paid for the wrong engineers. BTW, I am a licensed mechanical engineer.
__________________
F10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2016, 13:49   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Titanium Chain Plates and Mast Fittings

Your post #19 confuses me if you are an engineer... :>) It's a real world out there. Yep, worked Aerospace engineering for over 30 years.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chain plate, mast

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help needed - How to support a mast without the chain plates? Privilege Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 8 14-02-2016 01:46
Chain Plates and Mast Tangs - Replace Both? montenido Monohull Sailboats 4 08-05-2012 19:55
What's the Verdict on Titanium Shackles and Swivels ? TrevC Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 10 13-04-2010 21:43
Holding plates or evaporator plates captden Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 21 08-05-2008 19:56
Titanium GordMay Construction, Maintenance & Refit 14 19-03-2005 11:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.