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Old 09-02-2011, 12:07   #16
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Yep. But it is easy to check on any specific boat. Some have already been rewired by ex owners.

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Old 09-02-2011, 12:54   #17
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Originally Posted by SabreKai View Post
Back when I first got into sailing my boat (a Grampian) had electrical problems. So a friend and I started working on it. We found non tinned wire. No big deal. We found undersized wire. Big deal. We finally ended up rewiring a goodly part of the boat with heavier wire but we also didn't used tinned wire. We stripped the wire, tinned the end, crimped on the connector and then put heat shrink on the end. The only thing I've changed in my methods over the last 30 years is to use tinned wire to start with.

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It is against several codes to tin the wire ends by soldering, prior to crimping, as well as counter to fitting manufacturer recomendations. This does not give the same effect as tinned wire and inhibits proper crimp formation. Additionally, if heated, the crimp may become unsound.

4.3.4 Crimping. Stranded wire shall be used for crimping (Requirement). Crimping of solid
wire is prohibited. Crimping of solder tinned wire is prohibited.

Either use tinned wire or don't. If you are going to solder, and there is no benifit in doing so if the crimpo is well made with a ratchet crimper, that is done AFTER the crimp is made.

(I have run extended salt spray chamber tests; this is based upon that expereince)
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Old 09-02-2011, 13:05   #18
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Tinning does not stop corrosion, it slows down the process if the wire is exposed to a corrosive atmosphere. A proper connection for the proper environment is still necessary.

In a salt water environment on a small boat, tinned wire is worth it.
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Old 09-02-2011, 13:20   #19
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I have a 1973 marine trader with all orignal wiring everything still works and I have had no problems
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Old 09-02-2011, 13:49   #20
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[QHwUOTE=motion30;615389]I have a 1973 marine trader with all orignal wiring everything still works and I have had no problems[/QUOTE]

Untinned wire...right?

How were the connections done to resist corrosion? I have a boat built in 1975 with untinned wire and automotive grade crimps, same thing, no corrosion. The connections that are still good were done in places where they have never been exposed to moisture. All the other connectors in places where there was even the slightest amount of moisture have had to be replaced including the wire, with its capillary effect with water.

That's the big difference. You have to do your connections and wire different if there is any chance of exposure to moisture.
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Old 09-02-2011, 14:00   #21
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I've come across more black and corroded cables than I care to remember on boats, if I replace them then I use tinned wire. Don't get me started on under size wiring fitted by OEM and owners, who don't seem to understand voltage drop and temperature ratings etc.
Always crimp never solder. I use glued heat shrink butt connectors, but for everything else spades, rings etc there is no point at all.
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Old 09-02-2011, 14:56   #22
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untinned yes
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Old 12-02-2011, 00:33   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
It is against several codes to tin the wire ends by soldering, prior to crimping, as well as counter to fitting manufacturer recomendations. This does not give the same effect as tinned wire and inhibits proper crimp formation. Additionally, if heated, the crimp may become unsound.

4.3.4 Crimping. Stranded wire shall be used for crimping (Requirement). Crimping of solid
wire is prohibited. Crimping of solder tinned wire is prohibited.

Either use tinned wire or don't. If you are going to solder, and there is no benifit in doing so if the crimpo is well made with a ratchet crimper, that is done AFTER the crimp is made.

(I have run extended salt spray chamber tests; this is based upon that expereince)
Very well, time to change my procedures. Tks

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Old 12-02-2011, 02:41   #24
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I believe the only boats built with tinned wire are American. The big European builders all seem to use untinned wire (though I wouldn't say that categorically). Tinned wire is obviously a better product but it also isn't essential.

As Thinwater has said, it's more important to ensure quality terminations. And as others have stated, sizing the wire generously and providing adequate fuses and circuit protection. I tend to use tinned wire for everything smaller than AWG 10 and non-tinned above that size.

A good marine electrician could assist you in evaluating the condition of the wiring. That would be money well spent. I recently sailed a 25 year old Taiwanese built boat that was excellent in every respect but for a dodgy electrical system - the autopilot turned itself on and off at random etc. But to be fair, there were a lot of crappy post-yard modifications to the system which were begging for trouble.
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Old 12-02-2011, 16:34   #25
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(whistle)

maybe, but a terminal can be soldered on and then it is fine in non-vibrating applications

where there is a sword, there is a shield ;-)

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Old 12-02-2011, 16:40   #26
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(whistle)

maybe, but a terminal can be soldered on and then it is fine in non-vibrating applications

where there is a sword, there is a shield ;-)

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It's not just to do with vibration. it's also to do with heat. If the wire over heats the solder can melt out.

Lloyds require crimped terminals.
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Old 12-02-2011, 17:01   #27
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It's not just to do with vibration. it's also to do with heat. If the wire over heats the solder can melt out.

Lloyds require crimped terminals.
I like the Lloyds part. It sounds authoritative.

I cannot think how a terminal at the top of the mast could heat and melt (???). Neither will one in boat's interior (other than the engine compartment).

Does Lloyd say anything about TINNED WIRE then?

Conclusions?

Looking at a detail we learn about the detail and looking at the whole rig we learn about why the detail works the way it does.

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Old 12-02-2011, 17:14   #28
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You can do or have anything you want, it's your choice.
Is it best practice, or will we "get away with it", is a different matter entirely.
When I work on boats, mine or clients, I use best practice and I expect the same treatment.
I've worked on too many boats that have a "get away with it" approach and upset too many owners when I have to tell them that their recently repaired boat has to be done again.

Lloyds don't require tinned wire.
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Old 12-02-2011, 21:05   #29
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You can do or have anything you want, it's your choice.
Is it best practice, or will we "get away with it", is a different matter entirely.
When I work on boats, mine or clients, I use best practice and I expect the same treatment.
I've worked on too many boats that have a "get away with it" approach and upset too many owners when I have to tell them that their recently repaired boat has to be done again.

Lloyds don't require tinned wire.
OK and since you agree that Lloyds allow for far less than perfect wire while at the same time insisting on perfect terminals ...

... then I will admit that I was only fooling around trying to prove that we should NOT follow s.c. authorities but rather seek and apply above mentioned best practices.

Which is what you do.

And which is what I subscribe to.

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Old 13-02-2011, 15:09   #30
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Several studies have shown standard heat shrink wire ends do not stop inevitable corrosion....in fact they do vety little to help. I've been rewiring boats both as an amatuer and pro for over 40 years...a properly wired boat with tinned wire I just have to believe will outlive untinned..how long??? depends on many factors but all things equal...I firmly believe it's worth the added expense....as long as you are going to do everything else as correct as possible.

If you have ever cut through a properly crimped cable of tinned wire...it is imperceptable where wire, copper, tinning, lug all start and stop...so I doubt there is an issue with crimping factory tinned wire/cable...post manufacturing soldering may be a different story.
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