Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-08-2009, 08:28   #46
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Sara, since your in a marina, couldn't you just make a deal with the service department to haul the boat and let it hang in the slings for a few hours? This seems like a hell of a lot of work for a very small savings...
__________________

__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 10:21   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,156
That's what I thought the problem might be. Although I still don't know how the tiller could still look "right" in your pics, but at the same time be 180 degrees reversed.

I like charlie's leverage idea on the tiller.... very simple. Just make sure you are pushing in the right direction, obviously. HOWEVER... if too much pressure is applied without success, the tiller or even worse, rudder or post might be damaged and an expensive fix would then be required. So be careful with that.

The best fix is to disassemble the tiller attachment to allow the post and rudder to drop down and clear. Least possibility of damaging anything.
__________________

__________________
speedoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 11:26   #48
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Sara,

I think you can be relieved for now. Just cross your fingers that the shaft is straight after freeing the rudder!

First thing that must be determined now is the actual position of the tiller with the rudder jammed like this. I looked back at the photo's you first posted by they are too close-up for me to see where the stern of the boat is.

The hinged bronze part that is bolted onto the wooden tiller: is the bolt that forms the hinge at the side of the stern or facing forward? If it is facing the stern, there's something wrong as it should face the stern when the rudder is the right side around.

If the tiller is pointing the wrong side, it has to come off. A good loosening oil is "PB Blaster". If that alone isn't enough (it probably will, PB Blaster is really good, don't even try with WD40), a heat gun is the next step.

Freeing the rudder: You started right: force-move the rudder itself, not the tiller. You must put the force onto the whole thing as close to where it is jammed as possible. The further away from it, the more chance for damage caused by freeing it.

I would propose to use the boat itself and some marina-dwelling victims to free it. You need the ratchet tie's, some rope and two six-packs of beer:

Tie/ratchet a strap around the upper part of the rudder so that the bitter end of the strap is where the rudder is jammed, on the right side to pull it free again (as opposed to jamming it further in). Using extra rope, wrap and tie it around something solid ashore, as much to the 90 degree angle to pull the rudder free as possible. Now take the first six-pack and start yelling "free beer!!". Put anyone responding on the side deck of your boat, opposite the side where the line runs out. Stop yelling when six victims took the bait (important to save the other six-pack for now!).
Now, the boat is heeling so there's slack in the line. Go take out that slack as much as possible. Here comes the second 6-pack, as the victims probably emptied their first beer. Stand on the other side of the boat and wave the victims around to get another one. Their hasty stumble for more should cause the boat to heel the other way and pull the rudder free.

If that didn't work, you have another chance. The victims have now drunken enough to do childish things, like quickly moving from one side to the other to make the boat roll like crazy. If they don't do this voluntary, you can always stand on the other side and yell "come and get me!" just make sure you have an escape to the other side to repeat that again and again before they catch you ;-)

It will come free this way and that will probably make it much easier to take it apart if needed.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 11:49   #49
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Assuming all this works, and you end up with a free rudder, you should start to consider what needs to be done next winter in order to limit the movement of the rudder and prevent this happening again. Most have a system which stops the movement plus or minus about 45 degrees from right astern.

Good luck
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 20:30   #50
Registered User
 
SabreKai's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada on Lake Ontario
Boat: Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 1,287
Images: 5
Ok Sara, 2 things to try before we go all nuts with huge levers n such.

First thing is to try a block of wood (say a 2x4 about 8-12 inches long) end on against the rudder underwater, right at the binding point, and hit it with a brick or something really dense. A hand sledge works great. The block will spread the force so that the rudder shouldn't be damaged, and the hammer will give a lot more umph in a short motion. Concentration of force to the focal point should knock it free. Just make sure you are tapping from the right side eh?

Second thing, the tiller head should have a split running up the side with the offset bolt in it. I assume you have removed that bolt and the one thru the base and shaft and its frozen. Judicious application of a propane torch to the head on one side of the split and around the back should expand it sufficient to get it off. IF not, get a thin strip of metal, say 3/32 or an 1/8 thick, and a half inch wide. Grind a bevel on one end like a chisel but with the taper very long so it goes from 0 thickness to full thickness over a long distance, say a coupl inches. Put the thin end against the split and give it gentle taps with a mallet. It should gentley open up the split, especialy if you apply heat at the same time.

Sabre
96 days n a wake up
__________________
SabreKai
SV Sabre Dance, Roberts Offshore 38
http://sabredancing.wordpress.com/
SabreKai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-08-2009, 11:44   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Jedi: Yea, if it was my boat it would be on the hard, and probably be getting a rudder, harken tube and bearings and a shaft of size that wont bend!
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-08-2009, 16:35   #52
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
How about a screw clamp at the top edge of the rudder where it is jambed against the hull, then run a line from it to the dock the way you want to pull it, tie a block on a dock cleat that is perpendicular to the rudder and centerline of your boat, run the line back to your boat winch and start winching slowly until it comes free?
Good luck and let us know your progress.
regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-08-2009, 18:48   #53
Registered User
 
SabreKai's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada on Lake Ontario
Boat: Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 1,287
Images: 5
I can see you pulling the hull right up close to the dock. so a fender on either side of the line is needed for sure. Otherwise, this might be an idea. Especially since the area binding is right at the upper tip of the rudder. It should be pretty solid BUT, just in case, put a couple of pieces of lumber on either side to help spread the load. Also some sort of protection from the toerail, coaming etc where the line will be rubbing as it will be under a fair bit of tension and will abrade the gelcoat.

Sabre
94 days n a wake up
__________________
SabreKai
SV Sabre Dance, Roberts Offshore 38
http://sabredancing.wordpress.com/
SabreKai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-08-2009, 18:58   #54
Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
 
sarafina's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
Images: 56
Victory!

Ok, there was no bend in the rudder post, the tiller cap was not loose and allowing the rudder to slide around, there is no nipple on the tube it runs thru to add grease into, I have no idea (still) if it has bushings or bearings or not.

There are no marine services at my little marina to get her outta the water, and I would have had to tow for a ways to get where she could have come out.

Man, am I glad I didn't have to!

We tied her up tight to the dock from both sides, close on the port side. Then a nice beefy buff man who loves me lots climbed down into the water and got between the dock and the rudder and PUSHED that sucker back off the center where she was jammed.

There is something in there about ladies always behaving better for handsome men.... sheesh... He hardly had to touch it!

And as an extra bonus he tied up an aussie, I got my climbing rig on, my daughter took off the main cover, unwrapped all the mainsail lines and generally assisted while he pulled my ass up the mast twice so I could untangle the escaped main halyard and lubricate all the stuff at the top tip of the mast.

We are ship shape and ready to go!

Thank you all for all the good advice and encouragement. Without I would not have been able to figure out how I had messed up, and what needed to happen to recover from my goof.

I now have in BIG letters on the underside of the tiller;

'NOT THIS SIDE STUPID!'

So if it ever gets flipped and turned around I will recognize that fact before I go anywhere with her!

Special thanks for the double sixpack suggestion. It worked, in it's own way; that was the thank-you/reward for my helper today who lent his strong back and good sense to the fixes we needed!

And if one buff guy hadn't been enough, my fall back was to try the general beer call! That was a genius idea ; -) only I am not so sure about the fall back on that one... another (3rd) round of beer might have been more desirable to the crowd that I would usually find hanging around on Sunday afternoon!
__________________
Sara

ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
sarafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-08-2009, 23:05   #55
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
good to hear everything went well Sara. Horray. Now go sailing.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2009, 03:37   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Fantastic to hear that you are all sorted at last.

Fair winds and calm seas - and go sailing!
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2009, 08:06   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Congratulations! The bigger hammer solution won.
regards
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 01:07   #58
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Sara,

Great job! I never thought one could reach that far under the stern ;-)

The only thing that doesn't compute for me yet is this: what happens if a wave slaps the rudder around, ripping the tiller from your hands etc. ? I agree with the other poster that it would make sense to limit the maximum rudder angle somehow (like at 90 degrees or even 170 degrees.

happy sailing!

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 02:18   #59
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,330
I think one really important lesson you learned is not to let go of the tiller when you are going backwards so it doesn't happen again.
__________________

__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rudder

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Land Locked in Oklahoma Hal Meets & Greets 12 14-01-2009 21:01
Hello to all from a land locked builder 04 Marine Meets & Greets 8 08-11-2008 14:33
should the bumfuzzle thread be locked? northerncat Forum Tech Support & Site Help 35 12-06-2007 21:26
LAND-LOCKED! Duesouthpacific Crew Archives 0 29-05-2007 17:52
Emergency tiller/rudder sneuman Health, Safety & Related Gear 10 25-09-2005 20:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.