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Old 10-12-2009, 04:57   #1
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Thru-Valve Material

Bet this is somewhere else already, but....

I have to replace a thur valve this weather because it is frozen open. It of course is the hardess one on the boat to get to. Anyway, what are the pros and cons between bronze and "plastic" vales? Seems that the only con aganist the plastic is if it would to frezze with water in it it would crack, but then probably so would the bronze valve.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:16   #2
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Bet this is somewhere else already, but....

I have to replace a thur valve this weather because it is frozen open. It of course is the hardess one on the boat to get to. Anyway, what are the pros and cons between bronze and "plastic" vales? Seems that the only con aganist the plastic is if it would to frezze with water in it it would crack, but then probably so would the bronze valve.
If, by plastic, you are referring to Forespar Marelon thru-hulls, they are not plastic and will not crack or freeze; they are every bit as tough as bronze but inert and will not deteriorate from galvanic corrosion the way bronze can do. The seacock valves are equally strong and there is no need to fear that they will crack from freezing. Quoting from Forspar's site "Marelon® plumbing is now used by custom builders such as Wally Yachts, Oyster, Swan, Baltic, Morris and many other production builders such as Wellcraft, Boston Whaler, Sabre, Godfrey, Triton, Hinkley, S-2, Baja, Cobalt, and more than 100 others, power and sail. Virtually all North American production boat builders use some Marelon® plumbing components in their boats. Forespar® ships over 45,000 valves a year to service these builders and have been supplying quality-plumbing components made of engineering polymers since 1982."

They exceed both UL and ABYC standards. I would be much more suspicious of who is casting bronze these days (can you say "Chinese drywall"?).
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:24   #3
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I've had problems with marlon valves sticking and handles breaking off so tend to only use bronze.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:37   #4
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I'm with Joli on this. I have had it with Marelon valves seizing up. I went back to bronze ball valves, 13 of them. Yes, you might be able to keep them from seizing up by exercising them frequently but what if one decides to seize up when you really need to shut it off or to open it? I don't think it is worth the money saved to take that risk. I know the Coasties do not allow them on inspected passenger vessels.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:44   #5
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I'm with Joli on this. I have had it with Marelon valves seizing up. I went back to bronze ball valves, 13 of them. Yes, you might be able to keep them from seizing up by exercising them frequently but what if one decides to seize up when you really need to shut it off or to open it? I don't think it is worth the money saved to take that risk. I know the Coasties do not allow them on inspected passenger vessels.
In defense of Marelon seacocks, they only seize if they are not occasionally lubricated correctly. That can be equally true for bronze seacocks. I've personally never had a problem with them seizing or handles breaking in my boat over the past 14 years. I'm not sure that going with Forespar Marelon fittings saves any money.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:47   #6
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For the same price? I would take the bronze valves anyday. I'm sure that the frequency of Marelon valves seizing up is much higher than bronze valves, with or without maintenance....not to mention handles busting off. You could probably confirm this with any boat yard manager who deals with this on a frequent basis.
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Old 10-12-2009, 14:38   #7
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Guess this was a worth while question as in my mind the Marelon would seize less. Now it is starting to sound like they seize more than the bronze if not lubed. And as I said the valve I need to replace is in the worst spot out of all of mine. It is the head flush valve and to get to it you have to unscrew a port in bottom of the shower seat and then reach back in there a couple of feet. And this valve is behind the head discharge valve and you have to get your hand around that. So the chance of it getting a lube job isn't good.

On another note; as memented this is the head flush water and is about 4" afdt of the head head discharge. Normally I always pump to the holding tank and pump it oput later. But if I didn't the electric head in my boat could discharge overboard at the same time as bringing in flush water to the head. maybe I'll replace the valve and cap it and run a line from the sink drain for the flush water.
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Old 10-12-2009, 14:44   #8
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I know others are going to argue, but being that hard to access, go with the bronze ball valve. Being a PITA to access and the way we humans tend to procrastinate things we hate doing, it may not get exercised enough.

I'm not sure I understated the sink drain configuration. You never want to create a situation where raw sewage might back up into your sink drains. Not if you don't want your wife freaking out.
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Old 10-12-2009, 14:53   #9
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On another note; as memented this is the head flush water and is about 4" afdt of the head head discharge. Normally I always pump to the holding tank and pump it oput later. But if I didn't the electric head in my boat could discharge overboard at the same time as bringing in flush water to the head. maybe I'll replace the valve and cap it and run a line from the sink drain for the flush water.
Don, This is a good idea. My flush water thru-hull and sink drain are side by side. What would be the downside to taking the water off a tee from there? There is no way for waste to back up all the way to the seacock and if you did lose a little volume on vigorous flushing by pulling in air, so what. That could cut out a hole in the boat and another pain in the butt valve to winterize.

Jim
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Old 10-12-2009, 15:48   #10
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Don't understand how you can use a sink drain ,unless the waterline (ocean) would be above the "T" fitting. Off course Murphy's Law says someone pulls the plug on a sinkfull of food debris just as someone in the head clicks the flush button sucking said debris into the impeller which forces it all up "to the rim" possibly clogging all those nicely spaced small holes. Yes seems logical, spend more time doing maintance on easy to get to toilet than coming up with a sound solution. As to the thru hulls location being backwards , I assume the Intake which is aft of the Discharge is smaller. Buy another thru hull the same size as the discharge and inlarge the old intake hole and mount. Hook up discharge to new aft seacock, reduce down old discharge for the new intake. Think about it.
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Old 10-12-2009, 16:01   #11
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Aloha Don,
Yes, it is somewhere else. There is a lot of discussion about seacocks, thru hulls and such in the search engine after my signature.
Just had a marelon seacock freeze in the open position on me and I haven't even installed it yet!!!!
regards,
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Old 10-12-2009, 16:06   #12
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Don't understand how you can use a sink drain ,unless the waterline (ocean) would be above the "T" fitting. Off course Murphy's Law says someone pulls the plug on a sinkfull of food debris just as someone in the head clicks the flush button sucking said debris into the impeller which forces it all up "to the rim" possibly clogging all those nicely spaced small holes. Yes seems logical, spend more time doing maintance on easy to get to toilet than coming up with a sound solution. As to the thru hulls location being backwards , I assume the Intake which is aft of the Discharge is smaller. Buy another thru hull the same size as the discharge and inlarge the old intake hole and mount. Hook up discharge to new aft seacock, reduce down old discharge for the new intake. Think about it.

Say what? If there are more than 1 in my head, and 1 is washing the dinner dishes in the sink while the other is using the head, well I think there is a bigger issue. While I have a pretty large head on my Cal-39, normally there isn't someone draining things down the sinkwhile someone if "flushing" the toilet 9like never). And if I could easily make the head intake hole larger I wouldn't have a problem getting to the valve to start with (I doubt I would ever consider making holes in the hull bigger for such a thing anyway). The number of easier answers (like a seachest) are just too much better.
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Old 10-12-2009, 16:13   #13
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I know others are going to argue, but being that hard to access, go with the bronze ball valve. Being a PITA to access and the way we humans tend to procrastinate things we hate doing, it may not get exercised enough.
If the valve is a PITA to access, then it's probably a PITA to inspect no matter what it's made of.

I don't think with marelon valves you need to include them in a bonding system...am I right on this?

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I'm not sure I understated the sink drain configuration. You never want to create a situation where raw sewage might back up into your sink drains. Not if you don't want your wife freaking out.
This I will whole heartedly agree with!
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Old 10-12-2009, 16:27   #14
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Don't understand how you can use a sink drain ,unless the waterline (ocean) would be above the "T" fitting. Off course Murphy's Law says someone pulls the plug on a sinkfull of food debris just as someone in the head clicks the flush button sucking said debris into the impeller which forces it all up "to the rim" possibly clogging all those nicely spaced small holes. Yes seems logical, spend more time doing maintance on easy to get to toilet than coming up with a sound solution. As to the thru hulls location being backwards , I assume the Intake which is aft of the Discharge is smaller. Buy another thru hull the same size as the discharge and inlarge the old intake hole and mount. Hook up discharge to new aft seacock, reduce down old discharge for the new intake. Think about it.
Your boat may be different then mine. The sink drain is well below the water line on the same level of the sea water intake and the tee would be several inches below as well. You might get some bathroom sink drain water that has settled on top but all it would have in it would be some shampoo, soap or toothpaste which, in our head, would only improve it. We have a filter on the intake anyway and our head doesn't use an impeller. Our intake is only 5/8" or so and may be 1/2" so the 1-1.25" or so drain could easily handle the flow without making it bigger.
The reason this interests me is that I was looking at making some room in that cabinet and the intake is right where I don't want it to be. I have an old refer cooling intake to take out next year and I could just do a two-fer while I have the epoxy out.
Thanks for the idea.

Jim
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Old 10-12-2009, 16:43   #15
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Have previously stumbled on boaters coming out of the "facilities" with their dinner hardware. Didn't ask. I jumped to the assumption that your head and galley sink drain were tied to the same thru hull . I have 2 sink drains tied to mine. Good luck on your problem.
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