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Old 17-11-2014, 21:49   #16
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

G'day Mark, Not sure of the surface area that you want to coat.

If you could post a photo or describe the exact job it may be easier to give you accurate advise.

If for instance if it is a large area thinning maybe necessary, however if you are coating small areas like the hard edge surfaces it is easier to just warm the epoxy slightly. When mixed place the container in hot water. The added heat changes the viscosity of the epoxy and it will flow better. The problem is you have to work on small areas and work quickly.

If it is a large flat area like a cabin sole the best method of saturating is using Evidure or similar product specifically designed to do the job.

I have over the years experimented with all kinds of method to thin epoxy and I would have to say none of them were overly successful.

When you have coated the timber with epoxy you will still need to follow up with a UV coating, either a Polyurethane or Varnish. Snake oil salesmen will try to sell you UV stable clear epoxy, however no such snake oil exists.

My best results are achieved when I get a good build of clear epoxy thick enough to fair. Then apply the polyurethane.

I have also recently started using polyurethane sanding filler to great effect. If it is a bulkhead the results using the prescribed clear filler for the poly of choice have worked better than expected. This shot is of our aft cabin. I refinished it by hand last year after installing the teak sole. The sole was coated with two coats of Evidure. wet on wet, then two coats of single pack polyurethane. The bulkheads are one coat of polyurethane sanding filler and two coats of the polyurethane. The satin finish around the port hole is the sanding filler prior to the poly being applied. Hence the purple masking tape.






This is an older photo of the saloon before I installed the new teak sole. The varnish work is over 8 years old and standing up real well. The table was coated with 3 coats of clear epoxy, sanded fair then given a finishing coat of two pack poly. 10 years on it still looks like it has glass pored on it.




Hope this helps. I do have a passion for wood refinishing. Other friends on boats have commented that it is almost a disorder, they also compliment it and wish their boats had the same finish. Just this morning I was up putting a maintenance coat on the rail. The tropics are brutal and it is a constant battle. Can't wait to get further North.





The great thing about timber refinishing is if you get it wrong you can always sand it off and start again. Cheers mate.

Garry
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Old 17-11-2014, 22:17   #17
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

The geudgeon guys say not to do this, more or less. Since they are good at marketing and would be happy to sell you more expensive epoxy products, my guess is that they have tried to make a more penetrating epoxy but haven't come up with one.

So I'd either deal with their stuff unthickened or figure out another way to do what you are doing.


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Old 17-11-2014, 23:28   #18
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sobraon View Post
G'day Mark, Not sure of the surface area that you want to coat.


The great thing about timber refinishing is if you get it wrong you can always sand it off and start again. Cheers mate.

Garry
Thanks Gary for the advice and wonderful photos. Yes, it looks like you have OCD or mad cows disease I could not dream to get any refinishing anywhere near your work. I aim to have it water tight and usable.

The two areas I am doing are a two inch solid wood fiddle around the galley counter. After that, I have the more difficult part: the spashback behind the sink has some places where water has gotten into the veneer behind some revarnishing I did a year ago. the veneer will be thin and I am not hopeful of a good result. I'll post a photo.
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Old 18-11-2014, 00:36   #19
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

I'll endorse Gary's method.

My experience has been that thinned epoxy penetrates into the wood. While this sounds great it's not where you want the epoxy to be. That is, you need a nice thick layer of pure epoxy on the surface of the wood, not some variable thickness of dilute stuff unevenly spread inside somewhere.

Again I'm sure that many know more than me but when coating interior wood with epoxy there are two methods that I have used.

First is to use the epoxy as a primer. In this case I use straight (5:1 generic) epoxy and just coat it on. This does leave uneven patches. All must then be de-blushed (warm water, ammonia ...), sanded and then the topcoat applied. I usually use a good quality single pack polyurethane.

The de blushing is essential otherwise the waxy surface causes an "orange peel" effect. Not a good look after the all the time and materials expended.

Second is the quick and dirty way. I get the bare wood as sanded and as dust free as possible then I "flood" the surface with unthinned epoxy. It can be necessary to go over everything a few times while the epoxy is still setting until there are no bare patches. With care and a reasonable brush one can get a glossy covering and pick up any drips and runs at the same time.

While the second method does not give the same quality result it is fast, and the thick epoxy coating is durable, does not seem to darken much, and to my biased eye it is quite attractive.
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Old 18-11-2014, 01:17   #20
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Mark,

The 2" fiddle is an easy one as it is solid timber. I wrote a How to Article on our website when I did mine, however they Great Blog Crash of '08 lost it all.

I'll try to look for the old photos. We have arrived at a Marina in Labuan so internet shouldn't be a problem.

Basically you don't need to worry about thinning the epoxy for the Fiddle.

The process I use inside the boat is:

1. Mask the area well.
2. Apply 2 or 3 thick coats of clear epoxy, wet on wet. Don't worry if there are brush strokes, blemishes or even bubbles. Just make sure there is a good thick coat of clear epoxy. Remove the tape before the epoxy has time to fully set.( I know this from experience. A bad experience. )
3. Let the epoxy set overnight. Then comes the magic.
4. Sand the epoxy fair. Don't wait days, It will become too hard if you do. Use 120 grit. You can change down to 240 grit when your close to fair, however it isn't really necessary. If you go through the epoxy to bare wood, you didn't put enough epoxy on in the first place. (So put on another coat)
5. When the timber is fair leave it for another day to ensure the epoxy has completely gassed.
6. Then simply apply 2 coats of varnish/polyurethane of choice. I find the cheapest local exterior polyurethane is normally the best.

In the aft cabin I was using a Thai brand called TOA that cost $4.00 a litre. Whilst friends at the same time were using Epiphane at $100 a litre. Boy were they pissed.Especially when theirs wouldn't lay down in the humidity.(When in Rome). I guarantee the timber will look like it has 20 coats of varnish.

The splashback is more troublesome because of the veneer. DON'T try to sand of the varnish off. You will F*#k it up. Chemical removal using a quality scraper and 3m schotchbrite pads is the only way to go. ( I know this to from experience. A bad experience. )

I'll await your photo before I go into the details of that. I will show you another solution if the area permits. It blows away everyone that comes on our boat.

Cheers
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Old 18-11-2014, 01:34   #21
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Just saw Boracays post.

I agree.

Yes you may need to wash the amine blush off.

Not all epoxies are the same. The stuff I have used in Australia and SE Asia doesn't blush so I haven't needed too. Some say that if you don't wash even after sanding you will still have traces of wax, however, I haven't had a problem. If the epoxy goes dull as it sets you have a blush and you will need to clean it off.

Also I forgot, if the wood is teak wipe it with acetone just prior to applying the epoxy. The process of preparing the timber for the epoxy will bring teak oil to the surface and effect the adhesion of the epoxy. Not real bad but a quick wipe will give you a better job.

Another tip! I am not sure if they are available where you are but we have found Clorox Wipes remove wet epoxy off hands, tools, bench tops, shoes and just about everything else better than anything else we have found. (again how did we find this out? Through experience. A bad experience.)

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Old 18-11-2014, 03:42   #22
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Thanks guys, great advice.
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Old 18-11-2014, 05:40   #23
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned GitRot. I've used it for something like 30 years. It's already the right consistency, easy to mix, and from what I've seen, does a great job.

Is there some reason the marine community doesn't like it? I've used it on the balsa core around some of the hatches on this boat, and it still works fine as far as I can see.
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Old 18-11-2014, 06:31   #24
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sobraon View Post
Just saw Boracays post.

I agree.

Yes you may need to wash the amine blush off.

Not all epoxies are the same. The stuff I have used in Australia and SE Asia doesn't blush so I haven't needed too. Some say that if you don't wash even after sanding you will still have traces of wax, however, I haven't had a problem. If the epoxy goes dull as it sets you have a blush and you will need to clean it off.

Also I forgot, if the wood is teak wipe it with acetone just prior to applying the epoxy. The process of preparing the timber for the epoxy will bring teak oil to the surface and effect the adhesion of the epoxy. Not real bad but a quick wipe will give you a better job.

Another tip! I am not sure if they are available where you are but we have found Clorox Wipes remove wet epoxy off hands, tools, bench tops, shoes and just about everything else better than anything else we have found. (again how did we find this out? Through experience. A bad experience.)

Garry
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White vinegar cuts epoxy for dirt cheap.


A thinned sealer coat helps to stabilize the substrate. This makes for less expansion and contraction, and will provide better longevity, especially where you usually get cracks at seams.
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Old 18-11-2014, 06:33   #25
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned GitRot. I've used it for something like 30 years. It's already the right consistency, easy to mix, and from what I've seen, does a great job.

Is there some reason the marine community doesn't like it? I've used it on the balsa core around some of the hatches on this boat, and it still works fine as far as I can see.

Smiths, CPES, Git Rot, all take about a week to fully gass off before you can safely overcoat it. This is much too long. These products are too heavily solvent laden for this purpose.
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Old 18-11-2014, 08:55   #26
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

NEVER thin or contaminate epoxy resin. Instead, use the proper resin for the job.
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Old 18-11-2014, 09:26   #27
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sobraon View Post
G'day Mark, Not sure of the surface area that you want to coat.

If you could post a photo or describe the exact job it may be easier to give you accurate advise.

If for instance if it is a large area thinning maybe necessary, however if you are coating small areas like the hard edge surfaces it is easier to just warm the epoxy slightly. When mixed place the container in hot water. The added heat changes the viscosity of the epoxy and it will flow better. The problem is you have to work on small areas and work quickly.

If it is a large flat area like a cabin sole the best method of saturating is using Evidure or similar product specifically designed to do the job.

I have over the years experimented with all kinds of method to thin epoxy and I would have to say none of them were overly successful.

When you have coated the timber with epoxy you will still need to follow up with a UV coating, either a Polyurethane or Varnish. Snake oil salesmen will try to sell you UV stable clear epoxy, however no such snake oil exists.

My best results are achieved when I get a good build of clear epoxy thick enough to fair. Then apply the polyurethane.

I have also recently started using polyurethane sanding filler to great effect. If it is a bulkhead the results using the prescribed clear filler for the poly of choice have worked better than expected. This shot is of our aft cabin. I refinished it by hand last year after installing the teak sole. The sole was coated with two coats of Evidure. wet on wet, then two coats of single pack polyurethane. The bulkheads are one coat of polyurethane sanding filler and two coats of the polyurethane. The satin finish around the port hole is the sanding filler prior to the poly being applied. Hence the purple masking tape.






This is an older photo of the saloon before I installed the new teak sole. The varnish work is over 8 years old and standing up real well. The table was coated with 3 coats of clear epoxy, sanded fair then given a finishing coat of two pack poly. 10 years on it still looks like it has glass pored on it.




Hope this helps. I do have a passion for wood refinishing. Other friends on boats have commented that it is almost a disorder, they also compliment it and wish their boats had the same finish. Just this morning I was up putting a maintenance coat on the rail. The tropics are brutal and it is a constant battle. Can't wait to get further North.





The great thing about timber refinishing is if you get it wrong you can always sand it off and start again. Cheers mate.

Garry
Spirit of Sobraon
Home Page | Spirit of Sobraon's Travel Log
Work is amazing!


**thread hijack**
I spent some time on your site trying to get a better look at your headliner. Can you tell me what you choose for the headliner?

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Old 18-11-2014, 09:28   #28
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

Garry your boat is awesome!
Mark, hiya, we have used Git Rot from Budget in SXM to re-"varnish" our teak shower grate. It looks grate mate!
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Old 18-11-2014, 09:57   #29
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

many years ago, we put 'minwax polyurathane, wipe on' on all the interior teak wood [3 coats] still there! another product we use to seal wood before varnish, or paint, is called 'smiths epoxy' it`s a liquid like water...stops dryrot mixes 1 to 1...c
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Old 18-11-2014, 10:31   #30
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Re: Thinning Epoxy to Penetrate Wood.

It's been known as MEK ever since we cleaned jet engine cowlings with it 50 years ago. Anyway, I use it to thin (slow) catalyzed West resin about 50% (real watery) for the first coat on well sanded (80 grit) teak. After it dries you'll think you screw it up because it's all bubbly but then I sand it smooth again and apply another coat thinned 15-20%, then sand that to 150. This makes an excellent base for the top coats which will be fine sanded between coats. Acetone works too but it evaporates too fast for large jobs.
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