The Yard Guys

[Exile]

Originally Posted by minaret

Soon I'll post some pics of a job I'm currently doing. It's a Jeanneau 41. The strut fell off. It also has keel problems. I've spent the last few days crawling around in it taking stuff apart and doing some heavy grinding. The boat is a real piece of crap, much mockery in the yard. I've never seen a strut built or installed like that before, it's madness. Must be those superior euro designers. Those of you who know what you're looking at will be entertained. I'm sure smack and Pollux will explain to us why this method is superior.

Smack did ask for it . . . again. Maybe it will help relieve his boredom.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Exile

Smack did ask for it . . . again. Maybe it will help relieve his boredom.

Did he? Is he bored? With his own thread? I could see why, after 50 pages of anything but pics from yard guys, his stated intent. Poor thread management, and an apparent lack of patience. I wouldn't have noticed though.

Apparently, the first rule of the ignore list is: don't talk about the ignore list!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

It's a Jeanneau 41... I've never seen a strut built or installed like that before, it's madness. ...

You mean it is different from other recent Jeanneaus?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by smj

I would say the majority of cruisers are making less than 24 hour hops, maybe not marina to Marina but at least anchorage to anchorage. This would be the majority of cruising the Bahamas, Caribbean and I'm sure many other places in the world.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Point well made and taken.

I guess I look as the time at anchor differently as that in the marina. So, yes, I consider it cruising. But again, you make a valid point.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by avb3

Point well made and taken.

I guess I look as the time at anchor differently as that in the marina. So, yes, I consider it cruising. But again, you make a valid point.

Yes, cruising from anchorage to anchorage is certainly not the same thing as marina to marina with a restaurant and bar every night. Very different requirements.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

You seem to be leaving out the boats ability to spend time comfortably at anchor. What if you are making an offshore passage or just cruising to a destination with no (or very few) marinas or boatyards, with the intent of spending as long as possible with a crew of at least four, requiring fuel for generator, solar (oh no, windage!), at least one proper tender, some water toys such as kayaks or surf boards, fishing gear, frozen food and the power to keep it that way (batteries are heavy!), fresh water and/or the power to make it, and a long list of other stuff that comes before the finer points of "performance" for most cruisers? Understand the need for some compromises yet?

Well, some need Air conditioning too, but not all, neither all that stuff you describe, neither a Generator in what regards me, but any modern 45ft boat including performance boats will have space for a generator even if I am not seeing the ones that like performance cruisers installing one.

Regarding all the rest, solar energy and wind energy will be more than sufficient for the kind of simple life the ones that like performance boats appreciate. In what concerns toys you miss the point: the preferred toy of a performance sailor is the boat itself, it gives him all the fun he likes and wants.

But there is something that has to be said: that huge difference in performance regards the difference between performance boats and old heavy and medium designs, not new designs being them mass production main market cruisers or good medium well designed high quality cruising boats, the modern versions of those 30 year old designs that I had refereed as slow. On this and other ARC I had saw the very good performance of XC 45 and in a lesser degree of the new Halberg-Rassy, Amel and new Oyster. The difference still exists regarding performance cruisers but it is probably smaller than the one that separates this new medium weight new designs to their 30 year old ancestors.

I do not defend any particular type of boat for cruising. I know what I like and I know that many like different things, all types have advantages and disadvantages and each one will chose the right package of advantages and disadvantages, the one that will suit better his lifestyle.

Older boats have also an advantage: they are cheaper, even if that cheap can become expensive if one recovers them to new condition.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yes, cruising from anchorage to anchorage is certainly not the same thing as marina to marina with a restaurant and bar every night. Very different requirements.

Well, I have not the budget for a restaurant every night, not even for most of the days, I sail from anchorage to anchorage and you can believe that on the Med most anchorages have a restaurant, even if it is a very modest one. I don't know about the Caribbean but I guess that some will have them to.

[El Pinguino]

Good to see some confirmation re the Moodys. There had been a bit in the UK yachting press and then everything went very quiet after the Out of court settlement. I suspect other claims were also dealt with on the QT and that the yachting press was nobbled.

I was on good terms with a PBO editor at about that time , told him I had bought a Westerly.... his response 'You know , of course , that they have a lot of problems with delaminating floors... but we cant talk about it in the magazine'..... libel laws etc I guess.

Fortunately no probs with mine in that department... a few other interesting issues though.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Good to see some confirmation re the Moodys. There had been a bit in the UK yachting press and then everything went very quiet after the Out of court settlement. I suspect other claims were also dealt with on the QT and that the yachting press was nobbled.

I was on good terms with a PBO editor at about that time , told him I had bought a Westerly.... his response 'You know , of course , that they have a lot of problems with delaminating floors... but we cant talk about it in the magazine'..... libel laws etc I guess.

Fortunately no probs with mine in that department... a few other interesting issues though.

It may not be just the libel laws (at least in US) but the self censorship so as not to scare any current and future advertisers. Why would the magazine bite the hand that feeds it? That's why I'll always choose a biased opinion of any one yard guy over 10 "unbiased" magazine reviews.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Polux

Well, I have not the budget for a restaurant every night, not even for most of the days, I sail from anchorage to anchorage and you can believe that on the Med most anchorages have a restaurant, even if it is a very modest one. I don't know about the Caribbean but I guess that some will have them to.

You should check out Alaska or the Sea of Cortez. Those are the usual cruising grounds for folks around here.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Zach

Interesting thread...

I think instead of comparing polar diagrams, this thread might be better served comparing distances between re-provisioning stops.

Moellers Law: The sea keeping ability of a boat is inversely proportionate to the number of jerry cans required for it to reach its destination.

Grin...

Zach

He he , best post ever!!! haha Now thats funy!!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yes, cruising from anchorage to anchorage is certainly not the same thing as marina to marina with a restaurant and bar every night. Very different requirements.

More to the point, not the same thing as marina to marina with shore power, water & ice resupply and re-provisioning every night.

[Island Time O25]

What's up with boats and ACs? I could never get the concept. We were in the Keys in the middle of July when the air was 100F easily and the water around 80F. Never needed the AC what with the hard top, good ventilation throughout and an occasional swim. Is it some dockage related thing to have AC? A status symbol or what?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

What's up with boats and ACs? I could never get the concept. We were in the Keys in the middle of July when the air was 100F easily and the water around 80F. Never needed the AC what with the hard top, good ventilation throughout and an occasional swim. Is it some dockage related thing to have AC? A status symbol or what?

How about personal choice? I dont like humidity over much and would run my A/C when I became uncomfortable. Somedays in a Florida winter as well.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by avb3

Polux has made it clear that his prejudice is boats that go fast.

This does not make sense.

Originally Posted by avb3

Everything else is a compromise that apparently is something he does not want to be involved in.

The function of a sailboat is to sail well. Everything that is detrimental to that is a compromise regarding sail efficiency.
A cruising boat is a also a space for living inside and everything that does not maximize space and height is detrimental to that function.

Any sailing cruising boat is a compromise basically between those two needs that most of the time are incompatible and need compromise. There are ones that chose to have more living space, other better sailboats. There is no right or wrong regarding each one choices unless they don't fit in the needs and life style of the sailor. that's why there is so many different types of cruising boats on the market and so many different cruisers preferring each type.

There are another compromise between new designs and older designs. Newer designs (of each type) solved better those compromises, new advances in boat design allowed for boats with more interior space in a way that compromise less sail performance.

Originally Posted by avb3

Nothing wrong with someone wanting fast boats. But Polux seems to fail to recognize that the compromises those boats generally need to make are ones most cruisers have no interest in dealing with.

There are fast boats in each category of boats and as he have seen by the results of ARC the only really slow boats are 30 or 40 year's old designs. There is a tendency for all types of cruiser to make at least reasonably fast boats. That is what you see if you compare old HR with new ones or old Amel with new ones in what regards performance and they went that they because all sailors want boats that sail well and in what regards the ones that want them to cross oceans, everybody will prefer to cross the Atlantic in 14 or 15 days instead or 30. That's why they are way faster now.

Originally Posted by avb3

I'm still not sure how one defends cruising as being a series of less than 24 hour hops from marina to marina.

I don't know what type of cruising you do in an old 30fter but I bet you don't cross oceans on it, I don't know even if you cruise or not but it seems that you did not understand yet that there is many types of cruising and like the boats, they are not better on worse one from another, just more suited to the tastes and life style of each sailor.

Someone here has just pointed out that those 24hours hops are what most Americans do too, so I can't understand your point since this seems by far the cruising that most want and do.

Regarding going from marina to marina, it is no less cruising than going from anchorage to anchorage, just a different type of cruising but I don't understand why you insist in saying that is the type I prefer. This year i have cruised for a bit more than 4 months and I have been on two marinas, once because i had a problem with instruments that need assistance and other because I need a port or marina to go out of Turkey.

That is not different in what regards sailing than to go from Marina to Marina but I do prefer to be on the solitude of an anchorage surrounded by a nice scenery than on the marina and because I am not the only one to do that most of those anchorages have a restaurant near by. Yes from time to time I like to go with the dinghy to a nice restaurant and have a good meal while looking at the boat. I would not make that more often because that is expensive given the time I cruise. Some of the views from those "restaurants"

















Yes, I like to eat at a nice restaurant after a good day of sailing, on a nice spot with a good view. Do you think I am the only one? Do you think that is less cruising then to spend 30 days in a boat on the middle of an Ocean? Cruising by definition is going from on nice spot to another, without hurry and enjoying life. You can sail around the world non stop on a sailboat, some like to do that, but that is not cruising.

Do you get that clear now?