The Yard Guys

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

I agree except for the last phrase: There are many types of boats and what defines quality in a boat is not only being suited for a given type of sailing or utilization. For any types of uses you have boats with more or less quality...and some times that quality is just superficial, meaning best finish and best materials on the interior.

Anyway only for the fact that a boat is mass produced it will come out at least 30% cheaper and that has nothing to do with quality but with several gains that go from the use of very expensive robotics to scale economies on the purchase of materials. They use also the best designers and Na that money can buy. The price they cost is diluted on on the big production.

So to have a similar quality boat built by a small company it will cost at least 30% more. For a superior quality we are talking about 50% more and is good not to forget that much of that money go for a better quality interior, not for the hull or boat structure.

Even if I agree with what you say regarding a "bluewater boat" I, and in generally Europeans, would not call that a bluewater boat but a long range voyage boat. For bluewater boat I would call a boat that is at ease while offshore sailing and as you pointed out, most production sailboats of a given size are. Regarding Voyage boats there are several European shipyards specialized in making them and on those you will find all that you have mentioned and are in fact the boats more adequate for the kind of sailing you do.

That does not mean that for lack of money (those boats are expensive) there are not many doing that kind of sailing successfully (probably the majority) on mass production boats, including performance boats.

Go to my site and have a look at the boats tested for the boat of the year (movies) and look at the new Boreal 52, the type of boat you are talking about, with a very nice interior. Probably you would like that one.

Personally I would have preferred for that the new Comet Explorer 46 (you have a post about it on my Blog) simply because it does the same but it is faster and sails better

I agree with you and I was thinking about you when a new Boreal mid 40's Med moored beside us in the Canaries. That boat dripped in high quality,everything on it appeared to be well built. Owner said he had to wait almost 2 years after he put his order in. I'm getting a bit long in the tooth these days to sail in the Arctic or around the horn although if the opportunity was there I probably would give it a go but my deal with my wife is that she will go anywhere as long as there are palm trees, she does not like the cold but is a world class sailing companion. We are in the Caribbean and like the Med it is a gentleman's sailing venue. We will probably do a couple of years here before moving back into the South Pacific so like everyone here we do not need to provision for long periods and if we loose anything we can simply dink over to the marine store and replace it, tough life but someone has to do it. Merry Christmas to you Polux and all the best in the coming New Year.

[smj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Thats funny! But you know if you do intend to visit some far away places it will be pretty hard to throw all your junk in a new Benni and scram all the while expecting that you will have made some good decisions. I ran into 2 different boats that had spent 2 years in the Patagonia archipelago and they were very self sufficient in every way. We tend to be on the border line as some areas we intend to sail to we need food for a couple of months minimum and there are no marinas or yacht facilities so we need to be reasonably self sufficient but not up to the same level as those cruising the tip of South America.

The Pardeys cruised for years in a 24' then 28' boat with small water tankage and I'm sure a lack of storage space. The average sized cruising yacht in the 70's was in the low to mid 30' range. I wonder what their tankage or storage was like compared to the cruising yacht of today. It all depends on your priorities and your comfort level.

[neilpride]

The Pardeys are a very special couple....

[smj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

The Pardeys are a very special couple....

As were the majority of the cruisers in the 60's-70's. My point is it can be done. No need for all the fluff if you can live without it.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by smj

The Pardeys cruised for years in a 24' then 28' boat with small water tankage and I'm sure a lack of storage space. The average sized cruising yacht in the 70's was in the low to mid 30' range. I wonder what their tankage or storage was like compared to the cruising yacht of today. It all depends on your priorities and your comfort level.

Yes they did and wrote about it and many of us give them credit for giving us the idea that we can do it to. But you know that was then and this is now. Most cruisers today will not bath in salt water and clean dishes in salt water nor will they own a boat without a head or an engine. Having no electrical system saved them a lot of money but who do you know today that would do that? Yes for sure you are spot on, when we first started cruising if you were in a mid 30's boat you were sailing big but today everything has changed.
To my knowledge the Pardy's did not take on the high latitudes (I might be wrong here) and most of their sailing was in areas that had some population where food could be purchased although they would have to be self sufficient for their crossings. Your point is taken but the new breed of cruisers are about as close to the Pardey's as horse drawn wagons are to jet liners.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smj

As were the majority of the cruisers in the 60's-70's. My point is it can be done. No need for all the fluff if you can live without it.

Wonder how many couples like the Pardeys you see this days? huu.

[smj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Yes they did and wrote about it and many of us give them credit for giving us the idea that we can do it to. But you know that was then and this is now. Most cruisers today will not bath in salt water and clean dishes in salt water nor will they own a boat without a head or an engine. Having no electrical system saved them a lot of money but who do you know today that would do that? Yes for sure you are spot on, when we first started cruising if you were in a mid 30's boat you were sailing big but today everything has changed.
To my knowledge the Pardy's did not take on the high latitudes (I might be wrong here) and most of their sailing was in areas that had some population where food could be purchased although they would have to be self sufficient for their crossings. Your point is taken but the new breed of cruisers are about as close to the Pardey's as horse drawn wagons are to jet liners.

Point is, it can be done and has been done by many cruisers. Not all have to follow your idea of a cruising boat. We have owned multihulls for 23 years and I'll be damned if I'm going to subject myself to cruise on a monohull, just as you think the way the older generation cruised is barbaric. I'm sure you get my point. Different strokes for different folks.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by smj

Point is, it can be done and has been done by many cruisers. Not all have to follow your idea of a cruising boat. We have owned multihulls for 23 years and I'll be damned if I'm going to subject myself to cruise on a monohull, just as you think the way the older generation cruised is barbaric. I'm sure you get my point. Different strokes for different folks.

No of course not,it is simply my opinion! I have very little experience on multi,s so Dont have too many opinions on them but overall I like many of them.

[smj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

No of course not,it is simply my opinion! I have very little experience on multi,s so Dont have too many opinions on them but overall I like many of them.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make this into a mono vs multi debate. My point was, there are different levels of cruising comfort. Just because someone's cruising philosophies don't match yours it doesn't make them wrong. i don't want to cruise like the Pardeys, but I do appreciate the people that can and are doing it.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by smj

The Pardeys cruised for years in a 24' then 28' boat with small water tankage and I'm sure a lack of storage space. The average sized cruising yacht in the 70's was in the low to mid 30' range. I wonder what their tankage or storage was like compared to the cruising yacht of today. It all depends on your priorities and your comfort level.

I agree, we all become more addicted to comfort...because we can.Look at the average sizes of the houses from the 50's and today (at least here).

I cannot post a link to my blog but I posted about a story of two kids that made a circumnavigation on a mini racer. The boat was an old proto and even if not expensive for a high tech boat they could have bought a bigger old boat and have fixed it for the voyage but they were both rally cat sailors and did not want to hear about a boring boat to sail so they chose spartan and fast.

I am not defending their option regarding any other, just pointed out that there are guys that prefer that to a less good sailing boat and a more comfortable old one and that they could carry enough on a light 22ft boat to cruise extensively and to circumnavigate.

Now, if they had the money for a 40class racer or even better a 12.50 cruising Pogo I have no doubt that they would prefer that, or maybe just a Pogo 10.50. That would allow a much bigger load and would have made them much more comfortable and even faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRgIst0XMp0

DEFI VOILE 6.50 on Vimeo

[neilpride]

Good point, why you dont want to cruise like the Pardeys??? the million dollar question...

[smj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Good point, why you dont want to cruise like the Pardeys??? the million dollar question...

Because their boat was to damn slow:-)

[robert sailor]

There are many ways to cruise and I have been part of those over the years myself..the main message should be..get out there and give it a go if you are motivated. Whether you sail a 25 footer or a 50 footer the fun factor is the same...maybe more on the 25 footer!

[neilpride]

They dont have a engine Lol, what do you expect hehe....

[smj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

There are many ways to cruise and I have been part of those over the years myself..the main message should be..get out there and give it a go if you are motivated. Whether you sail a 25 footer or a 50 footer the fun factor is the same...maybe more on the 25 footer!

I agree 100%!