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Old 30-11-2014, 14:31   #346
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Re: The Yard Guys

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
That hose Smack, if is a cockpit drain or not,,, need a valve to open and close it..
Inspection and cleaning port in the side of the fuel tank??? my god!!!
Oh - that. It's got a valve. You just can't see it behind the other hose.

As for the inspection port - I agree. It's weird. But thus far it's working fine.
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:34   #347
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Re: The Yard Guys

Smack replacement value in the survey its a gross way to rate how expensive could be to duplicate build the same boat actually, this days.

Im sure in Minaret Nauticat there is enough glass content in the hull to build 3 bavarias together, my 2 cents , lol.
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:35   #348
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Re: The Yard Guys

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And sorry to be irritating again Smack , but is just my eyes or you have a crack in top of the grid liner beam in the bilge picture?? anyone noticed??
If you mean the discolored area on the bottom side of the image - that's just gunk. If you mean the dark line above the bilge drain hose - that's an old water line.

Anything else you want to pick on? You seem worried.
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:39   #349
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Re: The Yard Guys

Its a crack my friend, top of the beam, right side, or i just take to much beer yesterday!!!
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:39   #350
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Re: The Yard Guys

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Smack replacement value in the survey its a gross way to rate how expensive could be to duplicate build the same boat actually, this days.

Im sure in Minaret Nauticat there is enough glass contetnt in the hull to build 3 bavarias together, my 2 cents , lol.
I understand that. My point is - in reality, "replacement value" means nothing (that's why you thought your guy had a hangover). When you calculate the actual value of your boat, it will only be as valuable as the other boats on the market (AVB's point) - with a slight premium for its condition.

And that sucks, actually. I mean, I've not seen any pictures of your boat (I trust it's not a dump) - but Minaret's is definitely bristol. I just don't think he'd ever be able to get out of it what he put into hit. And that's a bummer, but it's pretty common with boats.
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:43   #351
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Re: The Yard Guys

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Its a crack my friend, top of the beam, right side, or i just take to much beer yesterday!!!
Well, should I go with the surveyor and his report - or a beered-up guy who's looking at a blurry photo trying to find anything he possibly can to discredit my boat for some reason?

I'll take the surveyor.

What you're seeing is a line between dirty and clean surface. This was a photo from my initial inspection of the boat. We had the survey - which checked out great (the surveyor even looked in the bilge a couple of times!).

I have cleaned the bilge since the purchase. There is no crack. So you can rest easy and go back to your beer.

Anything else?
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:45   #352
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Re: The Yard Guys

But its a crack or not? we can survey your boat online to, and for free!!

Huu if you take for granted the surveyor you are screwed you know that, i mean in my 2 previous boats , the surveyor in one case label my decks as core decks in sound condition with no moisture content at all, my decks dont have any core.

In the second report they label my topsides as gelcoat when in fact they are awlgrip...
So yes , call your surveyor!!!
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:48   #353
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Re: The Yard Guys

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But its a crack or not? we can survey your boat online to, and for free!!
You obviously don't have enough off-shore experience to tell dirt from a structural problem. So, you sound very expensive. I think I'll stick with the pros.

Heh-heh.
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Old 30-11-2014, 14:57   #354
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Re: The Yard Guys

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And that sucks, actually. I mean, I've not seen any pictures of your boat (I trust it's not a dump) - but Minaret's is definitely bristol. I just don't think he'd ever be able to get out of it what he put into hit. And that's a bummer, but it's pretty common with boats.
I'm having a hard time following the Smack vs Neil arguments, but are you implying here that if one buys a new production boat that one, when later selling, will get back all that you put into it?

Surely you don't believe that, do you?

Jim
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Old 30-11-2014, 15:07   #355
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Re: The Yard Guys

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
........
I don't have Boat US insurance. And we're not talking about structural defects or mtx issues - at that's not what I understood your point to be. My survey checked out fine. We're talking about damage from a storm, collision, etc.

Yes. I'm covered.
OK, that makes more sense. I thought you were indicating that your insurance covered structural issues, and I was surprised that was the case. My mistake on BoatUS... Alex and Taru are dealing with them as per their Facebook post today and I mistakenly transposed that to you. Apparently BoatUS are treating them very well after the other boat ran into them.
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Old 30-11-2014, 15:21   #356
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Re: The Yard Guys

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I'm having a hard time following the Smack vs Neil arguments, but are you implying here that if one buys a new production boat that one, when later selling, will get back all that you put into it?

Surely you don't believe that, do you?

Jim
I'm having a hard time following it all too. I think Neil is worried about me and just trying to help. So I'm grateful for that...though I'm not as worried as he seems to be.

As for the value when selling a boat - no way am I implying that you get it all back if you start with a new production boat. My point in this was to counter Neil's and Minaret's extremely high "values" stated for their boats. If you looked at Minaret's numbers at face value (and didn't understand the minutiae) - you could think that he has essentially "made" $1.2 million dollars with his boat (the replacement "value" against the purchase/refit costs). Though I think most people (even him) understand that this is very, very, very unlikely in reality.

But these numbers could lead a newb to think that it's definitely worth buying a big old heavy boat and "fixing it up" so you can "make a million dollars".

The bottom line is that if you do things right, you will almost certainly lose money on any boat you sell. I think that's pretty common knowledge. AND, you will likely lose the most if you buy new - or if you buy a basket case - regardless of brand.

But - another way to look at it is this...if you have Minaret's $550K budget, you can have a brand-new, warrantied production boat in the 40'-50' range such as a Jeanneau, Hanse, Beneteau, etc. - for JUST what he put into the REFIT of his $350K boat. Then you'd have that $350K to play with in sexy anchorages throughout the world.

NOW PLEASE UNDERSTAND - I am taking NOTHING away from Minaret's boat. It is an incredible boat and he has done an absolutely tremendous job. Complete respect for that. I'm just using his as an example of cost/value because he put the numbers up here in the thread. Different people have different cost/value perspectives. And I completely respect his.

But I also think it's very important to keep such numbers in perspective. So that's what I'm trying to do.
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Old 30-11-2014, 16:16   #357
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Re: The Yard Guys

Replacement value mean replacement value , not refit value, its a fantasy!! And if you buy the sexy Jeaneau you dont have a nauticat, every boat its a compromise, if is worth to put all this money in a Nauticat refit ? could be, since they hold their value very well and are very respected around the world, Minaret can answer that not me, but im sure he have a lot of fun in the refit...

Certains boats are definitive worth a refit or 2, you cant discharge boats to the trash because you can buy new and have lots of cash for other things, since many profesionals enjoy their Jobs fixing boats and many satisfied owners enjoy to have a better old boats, there is thousands of really good old boats out there and not so old worth every cent in a refit, and there is thousands of sad projects sucking lifes and cash ,,for me are just a waste of time..
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Old 30-11-2014, 16:31   #358
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Re: The Yard Guys

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I believe Beneteau pretty well owns the charter market, and most of their production is targeted at it.
I don't understand how you can say that: The charter market buys just a small fraction of the Beneteau group production, less than 25%. It's a lot of boats, but 75% are bought by sailors. Beneteau and other mass production boats have interior distributions more adapted to charter (biggest number of berths) and for sailors (more storage space). That's about what makes a boat more suitable for charter than for private ownership. And anyway in what regards quality for the price there is no more demanding market than the charter one where on 4 years a boat is used as much as an average owner would use it for 15 years.

And regarding the charter market in Europe, where it i bigger, Bavaria is probably as a bigger player on that market has Beneteau. Lots of Jeanneau and a bit less Hanse and Dufour but they all have their share.

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The Bene 38 has an A8 rating.

Do you seriously believe it is capable to take 8 people across oceans? How? It doesn't have room for a generator for water production, it doesn't have sea bunks, and you better be only on one heel the way the sink is situated.
And there you go confusing things. An A8 rating does not mean that the boat is made or can carry 8 across an ocean, it means that it can be sailed offshore with 8. When you make a small passage you are sailing offshore. you can sail offshore day sailing. Offshore means on open sea out of coastal protection.

Regarding the number of berths I don't follow you: The Oceanis 38 with a cruising interior on its more logical distribution has one sea berth and two cabins. That makes for 5 persons. Who in his right mind would make long range cruising with more than 5 on that boat? Sure you can cruise with 7 with 3 cabins but due to the lack of storage space on that configuration it would be only for coastal cruising with frequent stops.

Regarding the galley position do you mean that all the boats that use what is called a modern interior distribution are unsuited for offshore work? I agree that the classic distribution is better offshore (on the wrong heel) and worse on all other situations but it is convenient not to exaggerate. I have used offshore boats with the two configurations and even less convenient I never had problems with a modern distribution. There is always something that can serve as support for the back, in the Oceanis case the table and if you are going to cross oceans with the boat the thing to do is to rig a line in front of the galley from side to side and use an harness to be firmly in place, that is what is used with this kind of galleys.

This distribution is more and more used because even for the ones that cross oceans on the boat and cruise extensively, the galley is used more times fully at anchor or at port than on the sea. On a sea, on a small boat like the 38 sometimes the conditions only allows very simple meals.
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Old 30-11-2014, 16:36   #359
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Re: The Yard Guys

Very simple meals!! Sandwichs. guys!!!
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Old 30-11-2014, 16:46   #360
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Re: The Yard Guys

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Martinsitic SS has magnetic qualites (meaning you can pick up such a bolt with a magnet) - that does not mean it will rust.
3xx series fasteners are of austenitic microstructure and therefore non magnetic. The 4 other stainless steel microstructures are all magnetic.

In reality cold working and in service stress will create martensite in 3xx stainless steels. This will give the fastener magnetic properties. 304 is particularly susceptible to this. 316 less so. Cold working is part of the manufacturing process.

There are only two ways of determining whether you have good quality ss fasteners. New with certification from a trusted supplier or destructive microscopy. Some blokes magnet doesn't count. Sometimes I'll run some test welds to make an educated guess as to their provenance.

I use a float test for suspect fasteners. If they float I trust them.

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