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Old 26-08-2007, 06:37   #1
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The state of my boat !

The state of my boat !
Hello,
I bought my 12m motor cruiser 3 months ago and finally got it into the water three weeks ago.

The above water line wood look pretty horrible becuase the varnish is all peling off. The boat next to mine has a dark stained varnish and looks pretty good - see picture below. It made me think that maybe I should use the same product that I used on my house - its a mahagany colored stain with wood preservative - see picture.

Now should I sand the varnish or use a gas flame to remove it and prepare for stain/preserver ?

What do you think ?

Heres some pictures
- you can see that the white paint is also in bad condition - again - sanding or flame ?
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Old 26-08-2007, 08:20   #2
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Wow, looks like you have some work ahead of you. No suggestions, just best of luck.
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Old 26-08-2007, 11:03   #3
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Gas flame + wooden boat = potential for much trouble! Only if you are really experienced.

Why not ask the guy across the docks with the nice boat in the photo how / what he did to get that finish?
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Old 26-08-2007, 12:15   #4
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It is almost certainly epoxy varnish.
A bit expensive for me.

But I will ask...
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Old 26-08-2007, 13:28   #5
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Sand. There is not enough of the old stuff left to be effectivly removed with a flame. Plus that wood looks so tinder dry, I am not sure I would want to tempt it.
Remember, Dark colours tend to be more UV relisiant, BUT! dark colours produce more heat in the hot sun which can also be bad for timber.
Light clear coats look great, but take a lot of maintenance like you are already seeing.
Sikens make a product (cetol)that some here have tried with good results. I am currently trying it and at 6months over the winter period, it has held up very well. Summer is close at hand and our sun here will be a good test. The big advantage of it that I see, is maintenance should be fairly easy, with clean and recoat.
Not cheap, but cheaper than two pots and easy to recoat and seems to last as long as the two pots down here in our climate.
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Old 26-08-2007, 18:45   #6
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What do you think of this,

After the old stuff is removed and everything is sanded and clean, build up a few coats of epoxy resin, and then coat with a few coats of a quality product with UV protection in it.

This tends to give the effect that the varnish is very thick.

I have done it on smaller jobs like laminated tillers, handrails with success, but as yet to try a big job.

I think the Gougeon Bros. (west) may have clear finnished hulls using the same method.

Dave
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Old 26-08-2007, 18:56   #7
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Dave can you please tell me what type of wood you are dealing with so I can help you out?

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Old 26-08-2007, 18:56   #8
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Dave can you please tell me what type of wood you are dealing with so I can help you out?

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Old 27-08-2007, 00:06   #9
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Dave, that is one way, but you do have to be aware of a point. Epoxy is very poor at staying clear if subjected to sunlight, or UV exposure in other words. It yellows and breaks down quickly. The problem with any clear coat over top is, that clear coats are poor at UV protection. The darker the coat, the better the UV protection.
The other problem is that Epoxy has no "thixotropic" properties. So applying it on a verticle surface in any thickness results in sagging and running. Horizontal surfaces are OK.
Most clear hulls, like say a Chris Craft for instance, is multiple coats of Two pot clears, like Epivar, Epithane or Alwcraft. Stunning finishes, but they are not desinged to be out in the sun all day every day. These are show off pieces that will live in sheds or undercover most days.
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Old 27-08-2007, 02:43   #10
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Epoxy systems...

There is a good deal of information on the WEST site.

I use the cheap version of the WEST system, buying generic resin and thinner at $15 per litre, together with large quantities of microspheres and cotton fibres at (from memory) $40 per box/bag.

Your boat looks like it needs a large amount of maintenance. It will be qicker and easier if you buy the needed materials in quantity and have them on hand.

Cat man do has suggested using an epoxy system. I think that he is right.
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Old 27-08-2007, 02:53   #11
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Hi Dave
So you have bought a small Gulet then. I have lived over there for some 10 years.
First, don't burn if you want to varnish. You will get some dark areas.
There is no such thing as a varnish that will last a long, long time in the Med. We have all tried it and 100 different products.
The old addage, eight coats, start with at least 50/50 thiners and gradually build up to plain varnish.
Sand between each coat and add one new coat every six weeks or so. Will look brillant but the work will kill you.

Or you could do what most of the Gulet owners do. Select a few choice areas that are really well varnished and look great. Then just use a standard cheaper stuff with a stain in it. Just overcoat every couple of months.

Best regards

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Old 27-08-2007, 08:50   #12
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Hi, thanks for your replies,

I am pretty sure that the wood that I have photographed, the cabin, is pine with an open grain. The experts on this forum can confirm or correct that.

There seems to be two camps - the varnish it til it kills you and then do it again most years. Or the epoxy camp. which in Turkey may end up yellow and brittle too quick.

I still want to try something new and what I hope will be more maintenance free - the stain/preserver that I applied to me house (as seen in the pictures). Nobody has commented much on that option. Maybe noone has tried it ? Well I am not sure how it will stand up to the salty sea water, but I think ı'll give it a go.

I really can not be bothered with 8 coats and sanding... and epoxy seems expensive and also a lot of work.

Any final thoughts ?
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Old 27-08-2007, 13:17   #13
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The stain is a valid idea. That is why I suggested teh Sikens. It is a stain type product that holds up well and is easy to recoat. Remember that house stain is usually a much watered down product. The environment is not as severe and the eves of the roof goes a long way to shading the harsh Sun from the walls. Teh boat is in direct sunlight with just as much again, reflecting off the water. So it is a much harder environment. I would seriousely suggest trying to track down the Sikens Cetol product.
Hard to tell what the timber is, but I don't think it is pine. Pine tends to cup and warp in the weather. But maybe I am wrong. You may have a Pine I am not familiar with. It is possible it is Baltic Pine. That has a similar grain. You will only know when you sand it to see what colour it is.
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Old 27-08-2007, 16:10   #14
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Don't know if you can get this or similar over there, but Bote Cote doeas a hardner for there resin specificaly designed for your issue.

This is what I have used for clear finishing work, as I said with a high uv resistant varnish over the top.

I do not use the bote cote range to build with though,


Bote-Cote Products

Non-yellowing Hardener: A non yellowing and highly UV retarded hardener designed for coating exterior timbers that are to be clear finished.



UV Varnish/poly u

BIAS Boating Warehouse - Paints & Varnish



Norglass Weatherfast Poly Clear Gloss One part. Tough, abrasion resistant. High levels of UV inhibitors. Fast drying. Covers up to 15 sq. metres per litre. 4 Litre not stocked - to order only.Cat. 880A 500mls $19.90Cat. 880C 4 Litre $104.90Cat. 880B 1 Litre $31.90

Norglass Weatherfast Marine Varnish One part. Super high gloss with maximum levels of UV inhibitors. Covers up to 12 sq. metres per litre. 4 Litre not stocked - to order only.Cat. 890A 500mls $19.90Cat. 890C 4 Litre $104.90Cat. 890B 1 Litre $31.90


There are cheaper product around than the Norglass example though, but demonstrates that there are UV inhibited varnishes and urethanes around.

Dave
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Old 27-08-2007, 18:31   #15
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If that dark stain is cabots or the like, you will have to go with a one part varnish or poly, I do not believe there is a two part epoxy/anything that will stick to a one part stain or paint. Anyoneout there should chip in if they know of a product
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