Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-09-2014, 14:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Belgium
Boat: One-off Baron von Hoevell, 29ft steel classic
Posts: 334
The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Hi there,

I recaulked my whole teak deck, stripped and repainted the steel toerails, stripped and repainted the cabin and stripped and revarnished all the woodwork. She sure is starting to look more like the classic she is, rather then a derelict construction site!

Anyway, I'm now facing an issue I don't think has a simple answer... It's one of those things where everybody you ask has a different answer, and is convinced theirs is right.

I'm looking for a caulk that can seal some cracks. Issue is that the cracks in question are between different materials, and in less than ideal spots. I'm talking about the gap between the bare teak deck and the painted steel toerail, the gab between the deck and the painted polyester cabin for example. It's virtually impossible to clear them of all old caulk, so apart from being different materials, the conditions aren't ideal for fresh caulking. Other examples are between some of the brightwork and the cabintop, and between the deck and some of its SS fittings.

What would you recommend using in this situation? It was my hope some magical product existed I could just caulk the corners with like you would a bathtub without having to worry about the dissimilarity of the materials and the less than ideal conditions. Now, I'm not too sure anymore though
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-31 16.21.41.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	425.1 KB
ID:	87556   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-31 16.21.27.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	427.7 KB
ID:	87557  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-31 16.20.54.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	400.6 KB
ID:	87558   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-31 16.20.42.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	404.0 KB
ID:	87559  

__________________

__________________
Orchidius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 14:56   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Belgium
Boat: One-off Baron von Hoevell, 29ft steel classic
Posts: 334
Re: The holy grail of caulk - does it exist?

I've heard mention of butyl in the form of tape, but it also seems to be available in sealant. Any experiences?

One of the hints I hear every now and again is MS Polymer. That any good?

It's a pain to research, since most of the info I find is from the manufacturers themselves... That's just not good enough as the sole source of information...
__________________

__________________
Orchidius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 15:05   #3
ub1
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: narragansett
Boat: 45' leopard cat
Posts: 105
Re: The holy grail of caulk - does it exist?

Dow corning 798. Used on the windows on high speed catamaran ferries. The # may have changed but the company has a good website. I have used it for 15 years, good elasticity and does not dry out.
__________________
ub1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 00:06   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Belgium
Boat: One-off Baron von Hoevell, 29ft steel classic
Posts: 334
Re: The holy grail of caulk - does it exist?

What family of caulks would that belong to? I've never heard of it and I'll have to look hard to find a source here in Belgium I think .

If I can find the type of caulk I need for the job, I think I'll have it easier finding it with one of the big brands that are readily available. Surely they'll have their own version of it.
__________________
Orchidius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 09:26   #5
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,651
Re: The holy grail of caulk - does it exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidius View Post
...

I'm looking for a caulk that can seal some cracks. Issue is that the cracks in question are between different materials, and in less than ideal spots. I'm talking about the gap between the bare teak deck and the painted steel toerail, the gab between the deck and the painted polyester cabin for example. It's virtually impossible to clear them of all old caulk, so apart from being different materials, the conditions aren't ideal for fresh caulking. Other examples are between some of the brightwork and the cabintop, and between the deck and some of its SS fittings.

...It was my hope some magical product existed I could just caulk the corners with like you would a bathtub without having to worry about the dissimilarity of the materials and the less than ideal conditions...
Fuggetaboutit! Slapping some caulk on the outside of a joint! Indeed!

The holy grail of caulking is not some magical product. It's elbow grease. Reef and clean the joint before caulking.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 10:25   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Belgium
Boat: One-off Baron von Hoevell, 29ft steel classic
Posts: 334
Trust me, its as clean as it will ever get without tearing out the teak. Still not as clean as I'd like to see a joint before caulking though...

There has to be plenty of situations in construction where it's simply not financially feasible to clean joints out perfectly before caulking... What do they use? If I had paid somebody to clean it out as well as I did (and I rented professional tools specifically for the job) it would've been a few boatbucks just for two clean joints on a 29ft boat. No way in life commercial setups **** about that much...
__________________
Orchidius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 11:10   #7
Registered User
 
appick's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Boat: 1973 Easterly 36
Posts: 446
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

I'll agree making sure a seam is good and clean is important. I can only relate my experiences. I've used both Butyl Tape and the type that comes in a tube for sealing windows and doors on homes.

I've used the Butyl Tape and have gotten no leaks after 4 years and sold the boat. The current owner still has no leaks. It was between fiberglass and teak.

I've used the Butyl Rubber in the caulk gun tube on my current boat. I re-bedded every deck fitting with it. The nice part about this is it is readily available at most hardware stores in the USA and comes in white. 4 years later no leaks as well. The stuff never completely dries so it always stays flexible and is able to take the movement between different materials. I've used it between bronze and fiberglass, wood and fiberglass, bronze and wood, Stainless steel and fiberglass. It's very sticky coming out of the tube and can make a mess, but it's easy to clean with mineral spirits.

I will caution that I've heard from some that using the stuff out of the tube is no good after I'd already used it. But currently I can say it hasn't been a problem for me... yet... time will tell. I feel like 4 years is a pretty good run so far.
__________________
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." Antoine de
appick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 11:14   #8
Registered User
 
appick's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Boat: 1973 Easterly 36
Posts: 446
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

I forgot to mention the reason I used Butyl Rubber was that when pulling the hatches and hardware off, that didn't leak after 53 years, for the deck paint job the were all bedded with Butyl. I figured that to be a glowing endorsement for the stuff. It was still pliable and I could roll it into a ball and stick and pull it up to help in the removal.
__________________
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." Antoine de
appick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 12:12   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Belgium
Boat: One-off Baron von Hoevell, 29ft steel classic
Posts: 334
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

I've read similar reviews of the stuff, and I'm more than convinced it's super quality. If I was actually rebedding anything in this rebuild, no doubt in my mind I'd go with butyltape.

The stuff out of a tube I have some reservations about though. For one, it stays sticky, how so? Say, hypothetically speaking (a), if I was to bump into the deck/cabin seam, would that smear the stuff all over?

Also, in applying silicone, it's easy to smooth the seam with a finger and some soapy water. Is it at all possible to get a smooth finish with butyl out of a tube?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Orchidius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 12:21   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central California
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 873
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Don't use Butyl if any of it will be exposed, as, like
you ask, it will get smeared all over. It's better
used for a joint that will be tightened mechanically.

Don't even think of using silicone. Don't. Forget it.
Silicone doesn't make a chemical bond. If it gets
worked, it will start capillary action and wick
moisture along/into the joint/seam. And, there is
no way to ever remove all traces of it and use
something better later. Why is it even still marketed?
__________________
Bill
...........................................
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy ribeye.
jongleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 12:38   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 250
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Don't use Butyl if any of it will be exposed, as, like
you ask, it will get smeared all over. It's better
used for a joint that will be tightened mechanically.

Don't even think of using silicone. Don't. Forget it.
Silicone doesn't make a chemical bond. If it gets
worked, it will start capillary action and wick
moisture along/into the joint/seam. And, there is
no way to ever remove all traces of it and use
something better later. Why is it even still marketed?


+1 on exposed butyl - it will be a mess. I think silicone is the only sealant that won't leach the plasticizers out of plexiglass and lexan, so if your rebedding the glass in a hatch, it's the stuff to use. I agree though, not good for anything else.
__________________
slowshoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 12:42   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,006
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Use acetone to clean teak. The surface oils in teak inhibit bonding by all caulks. Wiping with acetone removes the oil and allows the sealant to bond and work long term.

Sillycone belongs in boobs not boats.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 12:46   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Belgium
Boat: One-off Baron von Hoevell, 29ft steel classic
Posts: 334
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

I was using silicone merely as an example for the way you can achieve a esthetically pleasing finish with some caulks. Wouldn't ever use it on the boat

So butyl is pretty much out of the question then...

Back to square one -.-


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Orchidius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 14:27   #14
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,651
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Surprised to be seeing no love for silicone. It is certainly one of the most useful boat caulks. Quite a few excellent choices of silicone based and polyurethane based caulks/sealants. The easiest to use are a blend of polyurethane and silicone.

Some products I regularly use:

Marine Grade Silicone
3M 5200
Boatlife Life Seal and Life Caulk
West Marine Multi Caulk
TDS and Maritime teak deck caulk
Sikaflex 296 (and others)
Butyl "tape"
Dolphinite bedding compound

Almost anything safe to use on boat windows will be silicone based.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 17:53   #15
Registered User
 
iancoombe's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: back at langkawi
Boat: valiant 40
Posts: 198
Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

I'm planning to rebed some deck fittings and was thinking of using a sikaflex product so I will be watching this with interest
S.V. Nereid
Currently anchored at the Parenthian island'
Malaysia
__________________

__________________
I've learned so much from my mistakes I'm thinking of making a few more.
iancoombe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Searching 4 the holy grail of quality T.V reception bouncingyellow Fishing, Recreation & Fun 6 28-12-2011 17:46
Autopilot Integration: The Holy Grail SV SolMate Marine Electronics 1 06-12-2011 08:19
Diesel RIB Tenders . . . The Holy Grail ? capcook Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 3 02-09-2011 23:06
Does this boat exist? C--man Monohull Sailboats 9 28-04-2009 17:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.