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Old 04-09-2014, 13:07   #16
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Terra Nova:

Are you saying these are silicone based:

3M 5200
Boatlife Life Seal and Life Caulk
West Marine Multi Caulk
TDS and Maritime teak deck caulk
Sikaflex 296 (and others)
Butyl "tape"
Dolphinite bedding compound

I'd be surprised if they were.
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Old 04-09-2014, 13:34   #17
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

They are products I use.
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Old 04-09-2014, 14:37   #18
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Butyl has its uses but this is not one as teak cleaners will dissolve it, also it never hardens. Silicone will not work well with the teak. 5200 should not be used with teak for the same reason as butyl and it has poor UV resistance. In this case I would go with polysulfide such as Boatlife. It has all the properties you are looking for. You could try one of the hybrids like 4200 but I personally have never used it like that so could not say for sure. Good luck and let us know how you make out. When it come to sealants there is no holly grail and different sealants have to be used for different applications.
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Old 04-09-2014, 15:25   #19
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

For your project that involves exposure to UV and needs to bond to metal and teak, I think I would go with Boat Life.
From their website:
"A long lasting, permanently flexible marine polysulfide sealant which can be sanded, painted***, and used above and below the waterline. Tack-free in 1 to 3 days, excellent resistance to teak oils, gasoline, and diesel fuel. Ideal for teak decks, to bed deck and hull hardware, seal thru-hull fittings, and underwater seams. Will bond to fiberglass, wood, metal, glass, and itself. Cures to a firm flexible rubber seal with excellent waterproofing and adhesion qualities. Can be applied underwater for emergency repairs. Can be applied to damp surfaces."

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Old 05-09-2014, 13:29   #20
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Boat Life is awful. I'd use TDS or 4000UV for this. Probably TDS.
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Old 05-09-2014, 14:43   #21
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

I seem to read mostly positive things about boatlife, what's your experience with it?

TDS I used for the re-caulking of the teak deck, I'm a bit unsure about its ability to seam between polyester/teak and steel/teak though, as it's designed to recaulk teak/teak joints...
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Old 05-09-2014, 15:29   #22
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidius View Post
I seem to read mostly positive things about boatlife, what's your experience with it?

TDS I used for the re-caulking of the teak deck, I'm a bit unsure about its ability to seam between polyester/teak and steel/teak though, as it's designed to recaulk teak/teak joints...

Seen a lot of failures with boatlife. Note the very bottom of the TDS info page (Other Applications), it is designed for bedding hardware on teak as well, ie metal to teak.

http://zetamarinegroup.com/files/ass...deck-caulk.pdf


Alternatively:


http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--


I assure you I've used all of these products quite a bit. TDS works great for that sort of thing and is relatively cheap and easy to work with.
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Old 05-09-2014, 15:45   #23
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidius View Post
I seem to read mostly positive things about boatlife, what's your experience with it?

TDS I used for the re-caulking of the teak deck, I'm a bit unsure about its ability to seam between polyester/teak and steel/teak though, as it's designed to recaulk teak/teak joints...
Think you're confusing the company Boat Life with the caulk that they sell. Their product that I've been using for years is LifeCaulk. They also make hybrid sealants with some sillycone and pure sillycone sealants that don't acid cure like the stuff you buy at home building and hardware stores. Life Caulk is a polysulfide sealant, like the NLA 3M 101, that is a descendant of Thiokol, probably the same stuff just in a different tube. It's much less an adhesive than 5200 but still sticks to stuff pretty well. It remains flexible for decades. Personally have pulled up stuff after 30 years and the Life Caulk still and was as rubbery as when it first cured. Like 5200, it uses moisture to cure so can be applied under water. I like it way better than 5200 as it cleans up easily with paint thinner and seems to seal just as well.

If TDS isn't an STD, it's probably another variant of polysulfide sealant. LifeCaulk/Polysulfide seals against slightly oily surfaces which make it the sealant of choice for teak decks. It's still a good idea to wipe teak down with acetone to get rid of as much of the surface oil as possible when sealing teak.

Have used Butyl tape with good success. Find it takes a lot longer to bed stuff with butyl because of all the fiddling to get it in place and that it continues to ooze out for a few days after it is applied. It's also difficult to work with in colder, below 60 degrees, temperatures because it becomes stiff and doesn't want to mold and flow as readily. For filling large gaps or stuff that has to be moved around after it's roughly in place, it works better than anything else. Just wet the surface where the hardware is going, slip the piece, with butyl applied, in place. and maneuver it into it's exact position. Then wait until the water evaporates and bolt it down. A god send redoing my old ports that had to be angled into place then moved into their final position.
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Old 05-09-2014, 16:26   #24
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Teak Deck Systems (TDS) Caulk would probably work well in this application as well. I've never used it but it is the hot ticket now for deck seams. We rarely sell a single tube. It usually goes by the case. When that happens I know someone is re-caulking a deck.

"The Teak Deck Caulk SIS440 was strictly developed by TDS for teak deck seams. It is a well-tested and proven product in hot or cold climates and needs NO PRIMER. A one-part silane polymer that forms a solid rubber compound, it is better than the polysulfide, polyurethanes and MS polymers. It has the highest rating resistance to UV, excellent resistance to chemicals and excellent temperature stability."

Teak Deck Caulk 300ML
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Old 23-09-2014, 21:17   #25
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The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Boat life is horrible stuff these days. Guarenteed it will run all over the place and fail immediately. I've tried it for hatches, windows and seams twice in the last year and am extremely dissatisfied.

Usually I bed any deck fittings, windows, wood trim, stanchions etc with Dolphinite. Have used this stuff for 40 years on boats of all types, and it never lets me down. However, this is a bedding compound, meant to be applied under stuff, not as surface caulking such as you describe. Maybe some sort of butyl caulk in a tube, or even non permanent 5300 might help your specific application.

However, if stanchions or windows leak, rebedd with sufficient Dolphinite and your problems will be solved for a long, long time.

The only other thing that comes to mind is to lay 1/4 round trim along the edges of your cabin-deck joint and bed underneath (with Dolphinite of course) to close off the seam. This might could work with vertical covering boards up against your deck-bulwarks also.


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Old 06-12-2014, 13:43   #26
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Teak Deck Systems (TDS) Caulk would probably work well in this application as well. I've never used it but it is the hot ticket now for deck seams. We rarely sell a single tube. It usually goes by the case. When that happens I know someone is re-caulking a deck.

"The Teak Deck Caulk SIS440 was strictly developed by TDS for teak deck seams. It is a well-tested and proven product in hot or cold climates and needs NO PRIMER. A one-part silane polymer that forms a solid rubber compound, it is better than the polysulfide, polyurethanes and MS polymers. It has the highest rating resistance to UV, excellent resistance to chemicals and excellent temperature stability."

Teak Deck Caulk 300ML
Can you overcoat SIS440?
I had trouble trowelling mine off. As in, it pulled a little off the top and left a concave surface in places. 290DC doesn't do this as it bunches up after as you trowel.
Consequently I am going to have to sand too much teak off, or have occasional depressions where bit wasn't proud enough to cover. (Or overcoat in places)
Their (TDS) application instructions were for pressing firmly with a flexible trowel.
I had read it was easier to use than Sika. Not for me.
Perhaps I shoulda slicked up the trowel with some spirits?
Watching the vid, I may have been too scroogish with the caulk. They seem to waste as much as goes in!
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Old 06-12-2014, 16:12   #27
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lateral View Post
Can you overcoat SIS440?
I had trouble trowelling mine off. As in, it pulled a little off the top and left a concave surface in places. 290DC doesn't do this as it bunches up after as you trowel.
Consequently I am going to have to sand too much teak off, or have occasional depressions where bit wasn't proud enough to cover. (Or overcoat in places)
Their (TDS) application instructions were for pressing firmly with a flexible trowel.
I had read it was easier to use than Sika. Not for me.
Perhaps I shoulda slicked up the trowel with some spirits?
Watching the vid, I may have been too scroogish with the caulk. They seem to waste as much as goes in!
This is a wonderfully easy product to use. Your technique was monumentally faulty.

It is imperative to overfill the groove, being careful to force the caulk all the way down to the bond breaker tape. If you create a low spot, IMMEDIATELY refill. Likewise don't screw around tooling this material. Apply only as much as you can immediately knife down. Once cured, the excess can easily be sliced off using a very sharp chisel set at ~45 degrees.
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Old 06-12-2014, 16:36   #28
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Next time I will pay more attention to what l am doing. Million dollar question, can you overcoat once it has gone off? My guess is not. It will be to thin a layer?
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Old 06-12-2014, 16:51   #29
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Btw, the monumentally faulty technique was the exact same as I used on a panel with sika 290dc whichvcame out perfect. The sis440 seems to have shrunk somewhat.
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Old 06-12-2014, 17:16   #30
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Re: The Holy Grail of Caulk - Does it Exist?

Lateral, Here is a link to the guys who make TDS.
The World's Leader in Pre-Manufactured Custom Teak Decks - Teakdecking Systems®


I suspect it will bond to itself but you should ask them.
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