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Old 04-10-2013, 10:43   #16
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

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Originally Posted by sestina View Post
Take a look at sling calculations. You'll soon realise it is a big mistake to have the jackstays bar tight. My boat has the usual aluminum toerail. I shackle both ends of the jackstays. It's the work of a moment to rig or stow.

Incidentally, I use double jackstays and a very large shackle as a runner. Almost never gets snagged up.
I don't like the bar tight idea for my own boat. On the Navy 44s that's how it's done, and the boats and jack lines are designed for those loads. I like the idea of the large shackle for a runner.

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Too bad you can't buy one of those boats. I think they're just about the prettiest thing on the water.
I agree they're pretty. They did sell a few of the old ones (Mark I) through the government auction site, I think. There are a few left on the hard at the Naval Support Annex (across the Severn from USNA). I'm not sure if/when they will be sold. The offshore racing team still sails a few of those--they have a better rating than the new ones. Not being a racer myself, I'm not sure of the details. I will also say that it would take a lot of re-rigging to turn one of them into a comfortable cruiser--they're pretty spartan inside and everything topside is designed to require at least four Midshipmen. They are pretty, fast, and sail very well, though.

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Jacklines are needed at night, in squals and when the weather gets worse. Are we planning to run around as night aproaches, as the sky turns black or as the wind increases to 3rd reef, crawling along the rail, rigging lines? Sounds contrived or like something done when the rules call for it, not something practical for a cruiser.
I have always rigged jacklines before getting underway if sailing at night or in heavy weather is planned. For a daysail in nice weather, no. The jacklines come off back at the dock or in a destination where daysails or staying on the hook for a while will be the rule. For some types of cruising, this could mean they stay rigged for a long time, and I can see that sun damage would be a concern--that just hasn't been the case for me.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:59   #17
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

Google kevlar jackline
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:32   #18
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

Jacklines - I've made many sets over the years for clients, always from 1" tubular polyester webbing. We also have fairly stiff rules on them here in NZ, and polyester works well as it is strong, very low stretch and lasts longer than nylon or kevlar in the sun. When stitching, sew down the length of the weave, never across it, as this will cause a weakness. I also use tenara thread. Lashing at the aft end is good, that way you can have them as tight as you want. I make them so they just lie flat on the deck. Local sailmaker should be able to source the webbing, it's a little more expensive than nylon,but worth it.
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:38   #19
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

I tightened up a test jackline with the winch - worked fine up to the point when you want the cleat to take the load Well I did actually get the line quite tight but it's frustrating when the cleat hitch will slip a bit. Anyway, got things pretty tight, put on my harness, hooked up and tried things out. Man was I disappointed! Despite being pretty tight, the jackline could easily reach the level of the upper lifeline which would see me dangling on the other side. Even a little stretch will do that because of the angles involved.
I then rigged up a temporary setup where the jackline sort-of went down the middle of the boat and tried to see how that would work - I felt totally secure knowing that short of the jackline breaking there was no way I would go over the lifelines. A huge difference.
Unfortunately rigging a line in the center is just a tad more difficult. I go from the bow cleat to the mast but then I have to figure out a way to deal with the dodger. This will take some thinking to get sorted. I suppose I could go right through the dodger but getting out from the cockpit while clipped in will be just a tad of a problem
The other issue will be the constant re-clipping required where the jackline goes through shackles or is attached (such as the mast).
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:41   #20
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

just an idea and please feel free to let me know if there is an inherent flaw with this, but as far as tensioning goes couldn't you just run 1 end of the webbing through a ratcheting tie down strap end (like you find at home depot or auto zone) that is connected to the boat. this would let you easily and precisely adjust the tension on your jack lines with minimal effort.

Just a thought.
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:41   #21
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

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Jacklines - I've made many sets over the years for clients, always from 1" tubular polyester webbing. We also have fairly stiff rules on them here in NZ, and polyester works well as it is strong, very low stretch and lasts longer than nylon or kevlar in the sun. When stitching, sew down the length of the weave, never across it, as this will cause a weakness. I also use tenara thread. Lashing at the aft end is good, that way you can have them as tight as you want. I make them so they just lie flat on the deck. Local sailmaker should be able to source the webbing, it's a little more expensive than nylon,but worth it.
Any preferred supplier for the tubing ?
Any stitching for heavy load that I have ever seen is of the criss-cross variety (XXXXX)
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:45   #22
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
just an idea and please feel free to let me know if there is an inherent flaw with this, but as far as tensioning goes couldn't you just run 1 end of the webbing through a ratcheting tie down strap end (like you find at home depot or auto zone) that is connected to the boat. this would let you easily and precisely adjust the tension on your jack lines with minimal effort.

Just a thought.
I was thinking about that kind of setup as well but I have never seen it in stainless. The common stuff would probably start rusting fairly quickly.
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:46   #23
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

I do not use nylon as it seems to suffer from too much UV damage over time. I use tubular webbing from polyester and I do not tension it at all.

Ours run: aft port point to the mast (pass to the stbd side of it) then on to the bow then back to the mast (where it crosses over itself, just behind the mast) then back to stbd aft point.

We have to re-clip at the mast but since we use double tethers then it is not a problem.

b.
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:48   #24
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

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I was thinking about that kind of setup as well but I have never seen it in stainless. The common stuff would probably start rusting fairly quickly.
Very good point! However for the cost of a package of 4 tie down straps i'd almost be inclined to just buy a bunch and swap them out regularly. I figure they'd at least last a couple of voyages before anything detrimental begins to happen to them.
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:53   #25
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

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Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
... It would be marvelous to see a boat pre-rigged with something (like seat belts in a car) but alas, I have not seen such a boat and as a single hander I would kinda like to stay with my boat and as such, jacklines are 'it'.
Mine are rigged all the time and I single hand more than not.


I should have added the full list of times they should be rigged, IMHO. These would be different in some areas if I were sailing with a race crew, but if the guests are non sailors or weak sailors, everyday is a bit like single-handing. I won't actually clip in in each of these circumstances, but I want the lines rigged.
  • Night. Hard to find MOB and easier to trip.
  • Squals... and which accounts for ~30% of summer days here.
  • If reefed.
  • Cold water. Anything below 55F for certain, 65F if alone. PFD or not, your dead.
  • In the off season. Next boat could be days.
  • Off-shore. Hard to find anyone.
  • Single-handing.
  • Alone on watch.
  • Repairs/rigging, even minor, in awkward spots. Common sense.
  • Spinnaker up if wind over 10 knots.
Combined, this means most days, not occationally, at least for me; any time I'm alone, the entire fall-spring season, most summer afternoons, every night, and most good sailing.


How?
  • Rope, if kept off the side decks. On many boats this is quite practical, running it along the edge of the cabin top, ending short of the bow (use dual-clip tethers and clip the lifeline or bow fitting if you must got to the very front). On my boat stepping on the jackline would be quite impossible, even if that had not been my intention; it just worked out that way. Who wants webbing underfoot?
  • High-mod line covered by webbing. Think Amsteel inside 1" webbing. The webbing would last 10 years in the sun if only for UV protection. Easy to do with a fish tape.
  • Steel cable. Not my favorite, but cerainly doable. Be certain the tether has some stretch because the cable won't. Attach the cable strongly and not too straight (needs some curve). Alternatively, include a short (5-10 feet, depending on boat size)nylon rope shock absorbing section at the aft end.
I'm sure there are many practical answers.
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:14   #26
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

Our old Insatiable (the first) had single lowers, and it happens that she had been rigged with Sta-loks. She had a single spreader mast, at first, with single lowers and a baby stay. When it came time to re-rig her with new wire, the old lowers, with their two fittings left on the ends, surely did look like jacklines. They were rigged outside everything except the chainplates on the side decks, never stretched, and allowed free passage from the cockpit to the bows without having to detach. Worked well for many years.

Their location was not optimal, couldn't have been further from the centerline, but fortunately, they lay outside where one normally put one's feet, and although they easily could have rolled underfoot, they never did that i remember. Also, the ability to move the length of the boat without detaching ever was a strong point for me. There's always the idea in the back of my mind that if one leaves the vessel, one is of the past. FWIW
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:28   #27
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Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
.I assume that Evans' meant the jacklines should be polyester (i.e. Dacron), rather than nylon...

s/v Annie Laurie
Yes, sorry about that . . . I did mean that they should be polyester/Dacron, rather than nylon . . . Just writing too fast this morning.
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Old 04-10-2013, 20:17   #28
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

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Too bad you can't buy one of those boats. I think they're just about the prettiest thing on the water.

There were sone for sale at a gov'ment auction a few years ago. Too bad I was on the wrong coast. >>> FYI: (3) 44 Foot USN Sail Training Craft
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:25   #29
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Re: Tensioning jacklines

Keep em as tight as possible and as close to the centre of the boat as you can with a short tether to your harness . People have died getting hung up the wrong side of the gunwale . It might be better to actually go over board than to be getting dragged head underwater wearing oil skins with the auto pilot on !

As for UVs stow jack lines after each passage and check them regularly .

Fair winds fellow cruisers

S/V Inca
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:35   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inca View Post
Keep em as tight as possible and as close to the centre of the boat as you can with a short tether to your harness . People have died getting hung up the wrong side of the gunwale . It might be better to actually go over board than to be getting dragged head underwater wearing oil skins with the auto pilot on !

As for UVs stow jack lines after each passage and check them regularly .

Fair winds fellow cruisers

S/V Inca
Worth saying again, you really need to be careful cranking them up tight, especially with any low stretch material. The loads created can be massive with the side load of a wet sailor.
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