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Old 28-12-2014, 23:04   #46
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

The only place I can think of for using pressure sensitive adhesive on a boat is for lining shelves.
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Old 29-12-2014, 20:40   #47
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

Re: Alder v.s. Doug fir, doesn't that just frost yer lenses! I have nurtured my forested acreage these past thirty-five years in the hope of "cashing" in soon with multiple logging truck loads of marvellous fir sawlogs(I did sell a few loads off fifteen years ago). Now I look at the market and come to the painfull realization that the value of the sawlog has not risen even to match inflation during those fifteen years, the only thing that has risen is the price of a cord of firewood, my lovely tall firs are worth more bucked into !8" lengths than into 18' lengths and the alder that has grown in during that time is worth even more than the fir as firewood!
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Old 30-12-2014, 02:31   #48
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Teak veneer over MDF?

As far as kitchen carcasis goes , in Europe, many are actually laminated chipboard not mdf, they have upto 20 year warranties.

None of this is suitable on a boat. For general interior work excluding bulkheads chose a good quality pre veneered plywood with WBP adhesive. Marine ply is these applications is over the top. Where there is any significant risk of salt spray or standing water , you need to upgrade to expoxy sealed marine ply.

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Old 30-12-2014, 09:26   #49
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

Epoxy alone may not do it if there is risk of standing water or constant moisture. There are additives to epoxy that enhance the barrier quality of the epoxy. To really seal the material, 6 layers of Interlux 2000e really does the trick but can get costly. For most interior applications, I would suggest using CPES as a sealer for plywood, especially on sawn edges.
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Old 30-12-2014, 09:34   #50
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
Epoxy alone may not do it if there is risk of standing water or constant moisture. There are additives to epoxy that enhance the barrier quality of the epoxy. To really seal the material, 6 layers of Interlux 2000e really does the trick but can get costly. For most interior applications, I would suggest using CPES as a sealer for plywood, especially on sawn edges.
Having toured most upmarket yacht factories at this stage, I would fail to see the justification for using sealing epoxy normal interior edges of good quality ply. Often a few coats of the usual varnish ( which could be epoxy based) would be sufficient.

we are aiming at " good enough " here, not perfection


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Old 30-12-2014, 09:47   #51
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Having toured most upmarket yacht factories at this stage, I would fail to see the justification for using sealing epoxy normal interior edges of good quality ply. Often a few coats of the usual varnish ( which could be epoxy based) would be sufficient.

we are aiming at " good enough " here, not perfection


dave
I will do it on my rebuild of a 70 y/o wooden ketch. I will be using MDO for bulkheads and cabinetry. It takes nothing to do this. While the glue may be waterproof, cut edges of plywood exposes the end grain of some of the plies. Even tho my hull will be watertight (splines, not seams), I will seal the edges on what may well be a boat that remains in the family for decades. Wood boats need careful attention and maintenance. I will seal the edges.

I will be using the MDO as sub-decking as well. You can bet your boots I will use CPES on the edges and on the faces as well, top and bottom. It aids in facilitating bonding of the glue that will hold the top final deck layer as well as providing a better adhesion for the paint underneath.

Frankly, I am not impressed with "upmarket" construction. Unless you are knowledgeable and standing in the shop where it is made, you can't be sure about quality. One such area where boat builders routinely fail to meet the grade is in the construction of a properly insulated and sealed refrigeration system. How often we read here, and elsewhere, of high consumption of limited electricity because the "upmarket" boat only has 2" of poured insulation that had major gaps, etc.

My rebuild is a labor of love and insanity. I'll use the CPES liberally.
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:20   #52
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

Quote:
love and insanity
doesn't that define all us boat owners !!
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:21   #53
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
Epoxy alone may not do it if there is risk of standing water or constant moisture. There are additives to epoxy that enhance the barrier quality of the epoxy. To really seal the material, 6 layers of Interlux 2000e really does the trick but can get costly. For most interior applications, I would suggest using CPES as a sealer for plywood, especially on sawn edges.
While I agree that CPES has its uses, I don't think it's ideal for the OP's purposes. IIRC, the instructions require 3 days of curing before other finishes can be applied. Even after that the product will continue off-gassing various solvents for weeks or months. I'm also not sure what effect encapsulated toluene and xylene would have on the glues in the plywood. The benefit of west or like epoxy for sealing plywood edges, is that it eliminates the roughness, and keeps the edges from chipping. Given the interior application and the resolution of the original leak, I don't think standing water will be an issue.
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:26   #54
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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Originally Posted by shipleft View Post
Re: Alder v.s. Doug fir, doesn't that just frost yer lenses! I have nurtured my forested acreage these past thirty-five years in the hope of "cashing" in soon with multiple logging truck loads of marvellous fir sawlogs(I did sell a few loads off fifteen years ago). Now I look at the market and come to the painfull realization that the value of the sawlog has not risen even to match inflation during those fifteen years, the only thing that has risen is the price of a cord of firewood, my lovely tall firs are worth more bucked into !8" lengths than into 18' lengths and the alder that has grown in during that time is worth even more than the fir as firewood!
Yeah... it just blows me away also.... There's about an acre of Alder below me (blocking my view! ) that has grown to about 40 ft or more in the last 10 years.... the stuff is everywhere..
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:27   #55
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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The only place I can think of for using pressure sensitive adhesive on a boat is for lining shelves.
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:51   #56
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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doesn't that define all us boat owners !!

At least the ones I have encountered here. I have seen some on the water - they have a new boat every 3 years. They have the wherewithal to hire someone to do essentially everything on board. I have met some and most are generally friendly - knowing we are all getting out on the water and dealing with those challenges. But their feelings for their watercraft seem less enmeshed and intertwined than mine does. I have been in every nook and cranny of every boat I have ever owned. Partially because I could never afford to pay someone else to do it and partly because when I do that I KNOW what a boat can do.
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:57   #57
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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While I agree that CPES has its uses, I don't think it's ideal for the OP's purposes. IIRC, the instructions require 3 days of curing before other finishes can be applied. Even after that the product will continue off-gassing various solvents for weeks or months. I'm also not sure what effect encapsulated toluene and xylene would have on the glues in the plywood. The benefit of west or like epoxy for sealing plywood edges, is that it eliminates the roughness, and keeps the edges from chipping. Given the interior application and the resolution of the original leak, I don't think standing water will be an issue.

I admit my comments likely were thread drift. Nonetheless, I will continue the use of a product I believe will work in my application. Curing time and off gassing of the CPES comes with the territory. I have an entire boat to reconstruct and it is easy to seal the pieces I am working on and move on to the dozens of other things I am working on while the curing occurs.

Now, if I could just find that screwdriver I KNOW I put down somewhere around this work table........
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Old 30-12-2014, 10:59   #58
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

I choose WEST epoxy for that.
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Old 30-12-2014, 11:07   #59
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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I choose WEST epoxy for that.

West epoxy doesn't have the penetration ability that CPES does. I have seen West epoxy just peel off a piece I am working on since the epoxy couldn't penetrate. Using the CPES and then the epoxy worked better. It depends on the application.
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Old 30-12-2014, 11:42   #60
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Re: Teak veneer over MDF?

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...I have seen West epoxy just peel off a piece I am working on since the epoxy couldn't penetrate...
Come on!

Sounds like an operator malfunction/misuse of the product.
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