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Old 03-11-2009, 03:48   #1
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Teak Sole

We are in the process of renewing the galley, saloon and front cabin floor covering. Galley is currently wood tile and the rest is carpet. Yesterday we found a timber yard which has 4.5mt x 14'' x 2/14'' sawn teak planks. We also know of a mill which will saw and plane the boards. Unfortunately the boards have to be sawn the 2/14 way to give strips which are 2 1/4 x 1/4.

Whats the best method of fixing down the teak onto 3/4 painted ply decking?
Will 2'' strips look too narrow?
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:38   #2
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Originally Posted by anjou View Post
.........
Whats the best method of fixing down the teak onto 3/4 painted ply decking?
Will 2'' strips look too narrow?
Too narrow??? well construction wise - no, appearance wise - depends on what you reckon is nice , but I used 2" strips for my cabin sole and I liked the look.
I used glue (polyurethane), screws and plugs but they were 3/8".
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:03   #3
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I think the 1/4" thickness is going to be too thin to screw and bung.

Why don't you consider epoxy. Most exterior teak decks are now laid with epoxy to avoid deck leaks at the screw holes. It will also be quicker and easier. Here's an epoxy designed for the purpose but I'm sure others will work. You want one that is fairly flexible. Do it in manageable sections and put bricks or stones on the teak to press it down as the epoxy hardens.

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Leave the wood onboard at least three days to adjust to the humidity level.

Which ever solution you pick, think about potential squeaks. Before you lay the floor, drive some extra screws into the plywood at any suspect point (stand on the plywood as you drive the screw).

Carl
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:58   #4
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Sort of disagree - I believe it is neither polyurethane nor epoxy but rather polysulfide. The epoxy may crack an make noises - it is brittle. And if smeared, will de-colour to dark shade over time.

Probably just look up 3M and see if the recommend the urethane or the sulfide.

b.
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Old 03-11-2009, 17:12   #5
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teak sole

I'm in the middle of this right now, and with a 3/4" well supported sub floor 1/4" teak with thickened epoxy will work just fine. I'm using west system thickened with 403 and 404 filler... no problems. Fit everything, sand and wet out the subfloor and underside of the strips, apply thickened stuff, and lay then down with weights if you can't vacuum bag. Traditional width is 1 7/8 (because that's what rough 8/4 mills to) and a 1/4" holly strip. Epoxy a 1/4" piece of holly on top of the milled teak, then rip it to thickness. 1/4" thick is ok, because you'll probably lose 1/16" plus sanding it all flat and still be left with more than 1/8" of teak, which is at least 3 times thicker than the typically 1 mm (.040") teak and holly veneer on the very expensive marine plywood available.

The whole job is much easier if you make patterns, cut 1/8" okoume ply blanks of each space, and make each floor in the shop instead of in the boat, laying the teak on the okoume and then epoxying the okoume to the sub floor. You can do all the fitting, gluing, sanding and finishing in the shop (if you have a shop). Borders around the whole thing look nice and make the job easier... they help contain things when they're slippery.

I was looking at a custom Lyman Morse last week which used an inch and a half width on the teak, with only about 1/8 of holly, which also looked nice but they didn't do a border (more work, but better looking). So it's your choice on the width. Some high end custom stuff has also been going to straight planked floors (no Holly) which can look ok but is not as traditional, unless it's long leaf yellow pine like in the old pilot schooners. Some of them used 6" width.

It's a fair amount of work, but looks awfully nice when done. Good luck.

Best, Bob S/V Restless
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Old 03-11-2009, 22:21   #6
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I echo Bob K's advice re the borders. IMO it is the borders that make or break the job appearance wise. On some of my unusual shapes, the border took much longer than the straight planking but everyone says they (the borders) look great.
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Old 03-11-2009, 23:53   #7
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Congratulations on scoring the teak. I wouldn't use anything that is so permanent a bond that you can't take up a plank if it gets damaged. I like your idea of using 2 1/4 inch wide strips and will probably be doing the same soon. 1/4" is plenty. I'm going to bevel the edges just a bit so that if I start to slide cross the cabin sole I won't go the whole way. Teak and holly is pretty but I'm just sticking with the teak and I don't need the borders and I'll leave it natural with maybe just of bit of oil.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:01   #8
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Here is a link to teak decking systems in Florida : http://www.teakdecking.com/
I have used their products for reseaming. They do huge amounts of teak deck work for high end yachts and cruise ships, they will be more than happt to speak with you regarding you job. I agree with above post regarding not using epoxy for several reasons: 1. Teak is a tropical hardwood that is inherently oily, many of the major manufacturers don't recommend their epoxy for use with teak because of potential bond failure issues. 2. Cabin soles are subject to stress loads and IMHO you want a bedding compound with more flex than brittle epoxy, polysulfide like Thiokol have been the choice for this application for years: http://www.polyspec.com/technologies/THIOKOL.htm

Another challenge with 1/4" thick boards is quite often cabin soles are not perfectly flat and the boards have to be screwed and plugged to insure a good bond no matter what the bedding compound is. Now some on the thread may argue that you can counter sink and plug a 1/4" board (which you can) however the depth of the plug will be an 1'8" at best, after a period the plugs will start to pop due to stresses. I would use 1/2" thick teak at minimum, (Good luck).
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:11   #9
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Bob K got it right,using margins looks much better,also laying it on a plywood panel is also the way to go,its much easier to do the work at bench level and you will do a better job.I do it similar for cockpit soles and seats wherever possible except instead of glueing it to plywood i make the template of 3/4" particle board,nice and stiff and flat and you can just sit it on sawhorses and work all around it. i lay up a glass/epoxy laminate on the template,sand that and then fit the margins and then the planks,i then caulk the seams with the TDS caulk,it then goes thru a timesaver sander to get the top perfect,then when i have the surface that its going to be glued to properly prepped and masked off i flip the panels over and sand off ALL the particle board and then epoxy down the panel,this way you are not left with a plywood edge exposed.
Steve.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:55   #10
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I am not a shipwright but I've hanged out with a couple for months. This is how I would do it:

I would make a new base using 3/8" marine plywood. The cut edges must be closed and I would use frames from the same holly as in between the teak planks. This means that after cutting and fitting the plywood panels, they must be cut around to make room for the frame. At this point I would also plan and prepare fastening to the bilge, latches etc. Any holes for fasteners would be enlarged to at least 1/2" after that (to be filled with epoxy later).

Frames also allow you to use a foam core if thickness isn't an issue but weight is. Like 1/4" ply for the bottom with 1/4" foam on top and 1/8" ply on top of that. The 1/8" ply could be used for patterns first.

On our boat, not every seam between panels is carried by a support. I would change that for both support and to prevent dirt falling through into the bilge.

After the plywood is cut, I would heat them with a heatgun and coat them with epoxy so that the wood cools while the epoxy cures (impregnate). After sanding I would give the cut edges and the underside a second coat, not sanding the bottom afterwards. Next is the framing, using thickened epoxy for bonding and making it 1/8" higher from the top of the plywood than the thickness of the teak planks. This must be the big time consuming phase because on most boats you have to deal with deadrise angles at the outside edges etc. I would check for fit after that because I am an amateur.

Laying the teak and holly onto the framed panels must be relatively easy. Wipe the teak with clean paper towel and acetone to degrease it enough for good epoxy bonding and use a flexible (but full strength) epoxy like West System G/Flex. Turn around and fill the fastener holes in the plywood with thick epoxy (high density filler). Sand the top and use the router for latches etc. Fastener holes can be drilled too.

Time for another fit. Also time to see if they flex to much. I would add a fiberglass layer to the bottom if so.

The finishing is a dilemma discussed earlier on the forum. I would probably choose an oil.

cheers,
Nick.
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