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Old 01-06-2015, 15:48   #1
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Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Hi

Wondering if someone would have any information and knowledge regarding the teak decking of a 1999 Beneteau 50

I am looking at perhaps buying one but are concerned as the teak is in need of repair. There was a quote done about a year ago which came in at about $20k NZD which i'd obviously use to negotiate price but are just worried that even if repaired I am just covering up a bigger issue if water has been leaking into the deck core.

Reading through the threads it sounds like if the teak is glued then it shouldn't be a long term problem just fix it and then maintain it but if it is screwed then the possibility is pretty high that it will eventually leak and cause big problems to the deck core.

The broker has told me that its glued and screwed and the teak is just an aesthetic layer over a glass deck and won't cause any structural issues. When looking at the deck I didn't notice hundreds of screw plugs but when looking a photo I think I can make out a couple of plugs in certain places.

I will get a survey done if I decide to move forward but just wondering if its even worth it.

If anyone has any insight for me regarding this model that would be great thanks.

Richard
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Old 01-06-2015, 19:21   #2
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Any place there is a screw is a potential leak. Period. I can't begin to tell you how many teak decks I've seen removed forever over the years...... I agree they can look lovely; also, they are too hot to walk on in the tropics, unless you wet them down all the time before you step.

Honestly, you'd be better off with some other form of non-skid. In any event, consider the costs in your negotiations, and do not trust the brokers' words too far, he's looking for his commission, and therefore has a conflict of interest between his usually generous good nature and what is wiser for him.

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Old 01-06-2015, 21:16   #3
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Wise words, thank you for this. I might just steer clear.

Richard
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Old 01-06-2015, 22:19   #4
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

I had the teak deck replaced on a 1985 Beneteau when it was 25 years old. It was glued and screwed over fiberglass with a non-skid pattern. In spite of the thousand screws, not one of them had leaked into the deck core. The screw holes were filled with epoxy and the new teak was glued down with no screws.
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Old 01-06-2015, 22:35   #5
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

That teak deck should be the glued on type. Teak is awesome as a none skid. In the end, you'll probably be able to negotiate the deck repairs into the final price. I believe I saved over $150k on our boat because the teak decks which I've refinished were so ugly during the time the boat was for sale.

The older screwed down decks should be avoided, but the glued decks don't share the same problems.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:45   #6
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

HI I own a Beneteau 1984 First F456 with a Teak deck which I replaced 3 years ago. It was quite deteriorated by the time. It was glued and screwed with a lot of screws. The deck did not leak. This boat was sold in two versions one with fiberglass deck and one with Teak deck and the Teak was laid on top of the "finished" fiberglass deck. This may have given more protection against leakages?. I replaced the Teak without screws and glued with Sikafex. I believe gluing with resin/epoxy may be a problem with expansion/ contraction due to temperature. My boat was always in the Caribbean so not a lack of Sun and up to now it is fine. Any more info I will be pleased to supply.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:00   #7
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Teak decks can yield 30+ years service, depending on conditions exposed to. They are invariably screwed and plugged in place. Teak exudes natural oil, hence it is resistant to rot as it is resistant to varnishes or finishes.

Old teak decks are seldom replaced in whole. Damaged boards are removed and replaced and the entire deck is cleaned w/a 3-part system. When properly accomplished, it's extremely difficult to tell the new teak from the aged teak, especially after re-oiled.

$20K must be to replace the entire deck. If so, I'd question why? I was on a USN minesweep with teak decks from 1944 that had only portions of the deck replaced in 1998. Replacing an entire deck is likely unnecessary.

A properly sealed teak deck will more than make up for any structural fiberglass core rot, if any. By 1999, virtually all sailboat manufacturers had moved to wood 'tiles' for core vs. plywood. W/plywood, one leak could seep through 8' of boat core. Using tiles limits any deck damage to (typically) 1/2"x4"x4" or 8"x8", so structurally insignificant when considering the depth of a teak board and the load spread across it when bearing weight.

A much better solution would be to remove damaged deck pieces, clean and repoxy over the damaged deck. Using an epoxy system also can repair soft spots for new wood to be put over again. If cosmetic, I'd use the west system approach noted here. For $20K, I'd do it myself. Normally, most boat yard work is less quality work than 30 years ago. You could find a poor quality repair with a large bill at the end. Besides, the skills you can find on youtube, and they will last for life.

Dana Beausoleil
USN/USCG Ship Inspector
WEST SYSTEM | Modifying and Customizing Boats - Installing a teak deck on Zatara
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:26   #8
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Quote:
$20K must be to replace the entire deck.
Laying a new teak deck (18mm thick 48mm or 58mm wide planks with 4mm seams) today is around EUR 1.050,-/m2 in Croatia, in the US we just got quoted between EUR 2.000,- / EUR 1.500,-/m2.

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Carsten
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:59   #9
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkjbnz View Post
Hi

Wondering if someone would have any information and knowledge regarding the teak decking of a 1999 Beneteau 50

I am looking at perhaps buying one but are concerned as the teak is in need of repair. There was a quote done about a year ago which came in at about $20k NZD which i'd obviously use to negotiate price but are just worried that even if repaired I am just covering up a bigger issue if water has been leaking into the deck core.

Reading through the threads it sounds like if the teak is glued then it shouldn't be a long term problem just fix it and then maintain it but if it is screwed then the possibility is pretty high that it will eventually leak and cause big problems to the deck core.

The broker has told me that its glued and screwed and the teak is just an aesthetic layer over a glass deck and won't cause any structural issues. When looking at the deck I didn't notice hundreds of screw plugs but when looking a photo I think I can make out a couple of plugs in certain places.

I will get a survey done if I decide to move forward but just wondering if its even worth it.

If anyone has any insight for me regarding this model that would be great thanks.

Richard
Some Beneteau 50s come wIth teak deck some without. The broker is right. It is cosmetic. The deck underneath is glass. Send me a private message.
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how long has this been going on and why wasn't I told about it earlier.....
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Old 03-06-2015, 01:11   #10
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

The Beneteau teak deck is much the same as mine on my Bavaria, just cosmetic and glued down. We've now only left the teak in the cockpit, I'm happy to throw some water on the cockpit floor to cool it down, but having the stuff all over the boat is a pain in the "A". Tear it up. As it's just cosmetic, if you want to keep it, it's amazing what a big belt sander can do in a couple of hours. The purist will say that you need to scrape out the black stuff first, but I just buy a few hundred bucks of sanding belts and use up the first twenty belts as they clog on the black stuff.
Sotavento's comment is quite right; they used to use the screws, only to hold down the deck, whilst it glued. So the screw penetrations are tiny and the glue membrane should have prevented any problems.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:12   #11
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi. View Post
The Beneteau teak deck is much the same as mine on my Bavaria, just cosmetic and glued down. We've now only left the teak in the cockpit, I'm happy to throw some water on the cockpit floor to cool it down, but having the stuff all over the boat is a pain in the "A". Tear it up. As it's just cosmetic, if you want to keep it, it's amazing what a big belt sander can do in a couple of hours. The purist will say that you need to scrape out the black stuff first, but I just buy a few hundred bucks of sanding belts and use up the first twenty belts as they clog on the black stuff.
Sotavento's comment is quite right; they used to use the screws, only to hold down the deck, whilst it glued. So the screw penetrations are tiny and the glue membrane should have prevented any problems.
Bavaria was using up to year 2002 teak glued on waterproof playwood and this glued on the fibre deck. When bad seams and leaking this "waterproof" playwood proved to be not so waterproof. After this year 2002 it was changed to teak glued on a thin plastic layer and this glued on the deck, which was a big improvement. I replaced the seams on my 2003 2 years ago with TDS, much better than the original Sikaflex.
I don't know how it is with with Beneteau but could be similar because of competition.

Ger
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:51   #12
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Teak decks in any form are unsuited for the tropics as they are simply too hot to walk on. Our Cheoy Lee had them but luckily a previous owner had the teak taken up, the decks resurfaced and a new anti-skid pattern applied. Far more practical and a lot less maintenance. So for my money's worth, I recommend removing the teak, treating the decks underneath and having them professionally repainted with anti-skid patterns built in. This will last longer, be easy to clean and cooler in the summer months or in the tropics.
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Old 03-06-2015, 21:24   #13
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Im surprised to hear so many talk about how hot teak is to walk on. Ive always been a bit over the top about wearing footwear while on deck, ever since watching the skipper of a cat we were on who was fussing around on deck came back into the cockpit slipped and put his foot on a winch cleat. Didn't go right through but still the thought of a rather large blunt object going through the bottom of the foot leaves me a little light headed.

Footwear, stops teak burning and cleats stabbing.
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Old 04-06-2015, 00:17   #14
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbeausoleil View Post
Teak decks can yield 30+ years service, depending on conditions exposed to. They are invariably screwed and plugged in place. Teak exudes natural oil, hence it is resistant to rot as it is resistant to varnishes or finishes.

Old teak decks are seldom replaced in whole. Damaged boards are removed and replaced and the entire deck is cleaned w/a 3-part system. When properly accomplished, it's extremely difficult to tell the new teak from the aged teak, especially after re-oiled.

$20K must be to replace the entire deck. If so, I'd question why? I was on a USN minesweep with teak decks from 1944 that had only portions of the deck replaced in 1998. Replacing an entire deck is likely unnecessary.

A properly sealed teak deck will more than make up for any structural fiberglass core rot, if any. By 1999, virtually all sailboat manufacturers had moved to wood 'tiles' for core vs. plywood. W/plywood, one leak could seep through 8' of boat core. Using tiles limits any deck damage to (typically) 1/2"x4"x4" or 8"x8", so structurally insignificant when considering the depth of a teak board and the load spread across it when bearing weight.

A much better solution would be to remove damaged deck pieces, clean and repoxy over the damaged deck. Using an epoxy system also can repair soft spots for new wood to be put over again. If cosmetic, I'd use the west system approach noted here. For $20K, I'd do it myself. Normally, most boat yard work is less quality work than 30 years ago. You could find a poor quality repair with a large bill at the end. Besides, the skills you can find on youtube, and they will last for life.

Dana Beausoleil
USN/USCG Ship Inspector
WEST SYSTEM | Modifying and Customizing Boats - Installing a teak deck on Zatara
Small boat decks and ship decks are a very different proposition. Boat decks can last 30 years but might need full replacement in less than 10. Biggest culprit is usually pressure washing, which ruins them at one go, but there are a number of other failure modes. They don't like being dried out or too hot sun, so last much less in the tropics. In Northern climates they are fabulous. Expensive but worth every penny.

Teak decks are mostly NOT screwed down since the early 2000s. The new method uses much thinner boards, cut on a CNC machine and glued down, no screws. This is much lighter and much better, no splitting, no screw plugs popping out, no leaking, etc.

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Old 04-06-2015, 13:45   #15
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Re: Teak Deck on 1999 Beneteau 50

Screwed teak decks offer a potential host of problems, particularly with plywood cores as plywood (and yes, this means marine plywood) has a strong lateral wicking action and may/will rot to mush in short order. Uncored glass essentially no problem, end grain balsa much less of a problem than plywood, as the grain is vertical if correctly laid, and so wicks vertically, and confines the ingress of water by and large. Foam, particularly the older type, is or can be a nightmare. Honeycomb, particularly newer model sheets, much more sensible and forgiving.

HOWEVER there should be zero complacency with EITHER nonscrewed but only glued teak decks, and/or nonskid only. This is because water ingress is less likely to be through the screwholes and far more likely to be through the inevitable boltholes that all such decks share, which are loadbearing as they secure deck kit such as pad eyes, guards, liferaft mounts, hinges, cheek blocks and all the rest. These are stressed and therefore FAR more likely to admit water into the core than passive screwholes filled with screws and sealant. That annoying leak you can't seem to trace? If you have a cored deck… hunt it down NOW. It is likely causing significant damage.

Also, some older nonscrewed decks (so those with screw plugs NOT in evidence) in fact may have hundreds or even thousands of holes below the teak. This is because of the once widespread practise of using battens to hold the boards in place as they initially go down, which are screwed through to the core, which are then removed and the holes (often poorly or improperly as hidden from view) filled. The latter can occur in even really very reputable boat models.

The lesson here is to take NOTHING for granted, and never be smug about whether or not your deck is genuinely secure from water ingress.

As to cost… teak decks are extremely time consuming to make and lay properly. The materials are also expensive. I would suggest that figures quoted above for the work are by and large conservative, when all is said and done, and may not include all the concomitant labour which goes into such a job, such as removal of every piece of deck hardware plus mast, hatches etc. Prices for replacement of teak decks are really DRAMATICALLY lower in SE Asia, where some of the best boatbuilders in the world reside. If you get correct knowledge and choose your yard wisely, you can get the job done for somewhere between 1/3 and 1/5 of what it would cost in the 1st world, with a job in many cases frankly superior. Stunning work, 12mm thick decks, superb finish. No rip off. You want it done properly? Sail to the Ithsmus of Kra.

As for the problem of heat in teak in the tropics, while it is true to a certain extent, no deck is cool in the afternoon a few degrees off the equator, and the case is, I think, overstated rather. Personally I love the look and indeed the practicality of teak in terms of high latitude insulation, sound insulation, superb footing, and, if you treat it correctly, which is NEVER to pressure wash, NEVER to sand, NEVER to oil, and NEVER to varnish (IMHO; of course opinions vary on the latter but brightwork above decks is asking for endless and avoidable trouble!), is an extremely durable and kindly surface. Much of the misery of teak deck owners come from their mistaken idea that it must look "new" and light to medium brown in colour. This is nonsense. Teak hardens in salt, sun and oxygen to a silver grey, which is the correct colour for teak that will last for several decades. Such a deck is also far more reflective and significantly cooler as a result. The only maintenance that needs to be done? Take her to sea and get her wet! Every few months you can brush across the grain with a soft deck brush. That is really it. Please don't be fooled by all those fancy (and totally counterproductive) teak treaments when it comes to decks. You are wasting both your time, money, and your decks!
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