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Old 06-12-2010, 14:32   #16
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Not true unless you consider all nations other than USA, France and other North American/E.U. 1st World countries as "uncivilized." I have a Florida license to sell and apply TBT paints and the regulations are specific in the USA that only vessels less than 25 meters and NOT aluminum are banned from using TBT paints. Any vessel longer than 82 feet or with an aluminum hull can legally use TBT paints. All military vessels are totally exempt and can use TBT.
Is there any chance that aluminum exception applied to aluminum parts of otherwise fiberglass boats? I'm thinking specifically of my saildrives. The copper works well enough on the rest of the hull for me, but the saildrives are a real pain.
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Old 06-12-2010, 17:59   #17
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...The International Treaty to ban the use of TBT originated from the French when they identified the chemical as causing significant damage to their shellfish industry. The original version of the treaty was intended to ban the use for all vessels worldwide - but - naturally, commercial shipping and all the militaries said - no way. So like the MSD laws only the "little guys" are left to bear the brunt.
- - Basically only signatory countries to the international treaty agreed to ban the use of TBT paints on vessels less than 25 meters LOA. All other countries metaphorically said "screw you - if the vast majority of shipping in the world and all vessels over 25meter and all the military vessels are exempt then why should we screw our little guys?"
- - TBT is available anywhere outside the signatory countries and used extensively. You can purchase it from large vessel shipyards for US$100 per 5 gal container (you bring your own container). You can buy it in all the ship's chandleries in the Caribbean for about US$300/gal...
Here is an article from the Hong Kong Trade Development Council from 2003 which seems to indicate that TBT paint would be eliminated from EU ships altogether by 2008 and any ships using that paint would not be allowed into "member countries". Doesn't actually say it would be banned for use outside treaty countries, just a (persuasive) commercial down-turn for those who do use it.

TBT use in anti-fouling paint for ships to be prohibited (hktdc.com)

I much prefer the TBT paint (sorry, little crustaceans) which I have had and still have on my hull - it seems to be the only product in tropical Mexico that slows down the growth of slime and barnacles. Guess I will have to beat feet to a non-signatory country for my next paint job.

Michael
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Old 06-12-2010, 18:15   #18
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Is there any chance that aluminum exception applied to aluminum parts of otherwise fiberglass boats? I'm thinking specifically of my saildrives. The copper works well enough on the rest of the hull for me, but the saildrives are a real pain.
There are non-TbT, copper-based paints that are safe for use on aluminum. Petit Vivid and Trilux 33 come to mind.
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Old 06-12-2010, 18:18   #19
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Seahawk makes their Islander 44+ TBT paint in Clearwater, Florida.
Not legal for sale or application in the U.S.

Islands 44 Plus
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Old 06-12-2010, 18:21   #20
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People who like the ocean should probably not use TBT, and persuade other to behave likewise. Using legislation if necessary. Many of our favorite anchorages are fragile and rare ecosystems. Some estuaries and bays that might be polluted with TBT are the only places young marine life live to support the much larger oceanic food chain.

Also your own health when cleaning the bottom...

Yes, It might save you a little on a bottom job, but at what price?
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Old 06-12-2010, 19:02   #21
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A small drop

What our boat looses in 5 years is what one cruise ship looses in a day.

I was going to slag France for killing the cod fisheries by initiating sealing ban, but I don't want to get my fingers rapped again

But on the upside, the ranchers is southern Alberta, have a great horse meat market, for my relatives, Thank you France.

Oh, and as a side note, don't buy it in Cayman, go anywhere else. You will be able to get the whole job done including the haul elsewhere, for the price of the paint there
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Old 06-12-2010, 19:07   #22
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Remember that great spray paint from Tempo that you could spray on running gear and it actually worked?

Yes, TBT is wonderful stuff. I was so opposed to it falling into the wrong hands that I bought as much of it as I could before it was removed from the market....

... no one (else) should use it... save it for me.
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Old 06-12-2010, 19:39   #23
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Where do you draw the line? Second hand smoke? Burning wood for heat? Exhaling all that evil CO2? Gimme a break. With 3 hulls at 30+ feet, does that qualify me for over 80' ? I'd buy it if I could.
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Old 06-12-2010, 19:58   #24
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TBT rocks! I'm into year number 5 and its getting a bit of growth now-a-days, but wow!

BTW, most military surplus (the real ones) places have it by the 5 gallon can for under $100
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Old 06-12-2010, 22:37   #25
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I can either embrace the objectives of the International Convention on the Control of Antifouling Systems on Ships and adopt an approach to reduce or eliminate adverse effects on the marine environment and human health caused by anti-fouling systems

Or I can choose not to.

Why would I choose not to?

IMHO, the judgement of my morals by others or whether it is legal in one part of the world misses the point completely
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Old 07-12-2010, 00:38   #26
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What are the issues?

It's a curious debate in some ways. For most of us isn't sea life on the hull an inconvenience? I use a hard paint so I'm at the far end I guess. It means I periodically scrub the water line and get any beasties and vegetation off. I sail her regularily which helps somewhat and don't worry to much about it.

My understandng is that it isn't going to hurt my boat. Most of the problem is at the waterline and I can easily clean it so not much of a performance hit, my boat suffers more from my trimming of the sails the the flora and fauna I think.

On the other hand I most certainly am not interesting in poisoning my, or anyone elses food supply, so if that is an issue I can't imagine why there is a debate.

Is there something more to this debate? I know warmer climes the stuff grows fast but its still not more then a quick trip around the boat once a week is it?

Now if you are in a wooden boat I understand the wildlife does more damage but most of us aren't in wooden boats are we?
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:52   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
... I have a Florida license to sell and apply TBT paints and the regulations are specific in the USA that only vessels less than 25 meters and NOT aluminum are banned from using TBT paints ...
The USEPA has canceled all TBT antifouling paint product registrations; cancellation of the last such registration was effective in December 2005. The effective date is the last date the product can be sold by the registrant.
International Agreements & Treaties | Pesticides | US EPA

* International Convention on the Control of Antifouling Systems on Ships
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:36   #28
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It's a curious debate in some ways. For most of us isn't sea life on the hull an inconvenience? Is there something more to this debate?
There are plenty of reasons why it is a good idea to keep your bottom clean. Reducing the transporation of invasive species, reduced fuel consumption and carbon emissions, improved performance and handling under both power and sail and last but not least; frequent, gentle cleanings will help your anti fouling paint last longer and reduce the amount of copper released into the water than less frequent, more abrasive cleanings. Foul bottoms are more than simply an inconvenience.

Quote:
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I know warmer climes the stuff grows fast but its still not more then a quick trip around the boat once a week is it?
In the U.S., in regions that exeperience high fouling, regular, complete in-water hull cleanings are necessary every 3 or 4 weeks, with the current crop of legal anti foulings. California (for instance) is looking at further restricting the amount of copper that anti fouling paints can contain as well as how quickly that copper can be released. What this means is that your basic everyday anti fouling paints will need to be cleaned even more frequently than they are now.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:19   #29
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Hey there fastbottoms, from your " under a boat, in a marina, in SF" thingee, sounds like green laws will be paying you for a bigger boat soon?
(you know Tim Sell?)
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:27   #30
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Hey there fastbottoms, from your " under a boat, in a marina, in SF" thingee, sounds like green laws will be paying you for a bigger boat soon?
(you know Tim Sell?)
Something like that would increase business, sure. I know Tim is a Marin diver, but I don't believe I have ever met him.
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