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Old 24-03-2016, 01:45   #31
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
You can find the spec sheet for one of the SeaHawk TBT products here:

http://www.seahawkpaints.com/wp-cont...ata_3-3-16.pdf

And the SDS (formerly MSDS) here:

http://www.seahawkpaints.com/wp-cont...-Plus-2016.pdf

~10% tin compounds
if you take a look here :

Bis(tributyltin) 95% | Sigma-Aldrich

10 grams of TBT cost about £35 e.g. quite expensive - in reality I would not expect a gallon of paint to have more the 2-3 grams as the paint will become very expensive ...
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Old 24-03-2016, 01:56   #32
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

As I recall one of the reasons for this stuff being banned for use on yachts was that TBT antifoulings on yachts in UK anchorages were causing the oysters to mutate, change their sex, and other bad stuff.

So go for it... after all they are your gonads to do with as you wish...
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Old 24-03-2016, 02:31   #33
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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Originally Posted by vtomanov View Post
Does anyone here know if a boat is with TBT paint or having around are boats with TBT paint makes your dessalinator/wm useless for producing drinking (safe) water ?

e.g. if you are in crowded anchorage in the Caribbean does this make you dessalinator obsolete for drinking water ? ( same beeing around big ships > 23m or military crafts that are allowed to still use TBT )
What nations still permit military craft and other ships to use TBT paints?

Im 'thinking' it's not in as frequent use as you think though im not sure.

If it is as prevalant in some areas, such as the Caribbiean, then a nano gram is apparently enough to begin damaging the eco system and start leaching into the food chain.
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Old 24-03-2016, 04:30   #34
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

So does the TBT additive in anti fouling actually extend the life of you anti foul ? or just poison the local sea life??
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Old 24-03-2016, 04:43   #35
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

Doesn't extend the life of your antifouling, but kills almost anything that tries to live on it, plus if you are in an estuary frinstance tends to have a bad effect on underwater stuff.

Nasty stuff..
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Old 24-03-2016, 05:22   #36
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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So does the TBT additive in anti fouling actually extend the life of you anti foul ? or just poison the local sea life??
as an aluminium boat,over a 10 year period,and sailing roughly 60 000 miles in tropical waters we consistently would get 2-3 years using 3 coats of TBT.
with the new biocide internationalpaint we barely get a year in temperate waters,so yes it works very well.
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Old 24-03-2016, 07:03   #37
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

TBT is banned almost worldwide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tributyltin
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Old 24-03-2016, 07:55   #38
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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Originally Posted by vtomanov View Post
if you take a look here :

Bis(tributyltin) 95% | Sigma-Aldrich

10 grams of TBT cost about £35 e.g. quite expensive - in reality I would not expect a gallon of paint to have more the 2-3 grams as the paint will become very expensive ...
You started this thread by being concerned that there might be too much TBT in the water to use your RO watermaker, and now you argue that the stuff is too expensive to put very much in the paint?

I linked to a paint manufacturer's spec. sheet. That sheet lists:

TBT Methacrylate at 10.48%
TBT Oxide at 0.6%

The manufacturer could be lying, I have no way of knowing, but that is what they claim to put into the paint. Could be that prices are way up due to reduced demand (because the stuff is banned) leading to small lot production?
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:18   #39
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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TBT is banned almost worldwide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tributyltin

I thought that too, but apparently that is not correct. Link I posted earlier said in the State of Georgia that TBT paint is allowed on aluminum hulled vessels.
I didn't see when that article was written, but it quotes sources that were dated 2006, so it seems TBT paint is allowed in Georgia on some vessels?
Don't have a clue where you would get it though.
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:18   #40
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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So does the TBT additive in anti fouling actually extend the life of you anti foul ? or just poison the local sea life??
Adding TbT to a non-TbT anti fouling paint will kill the paint.
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:20   #41
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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Adding TbT to a non-TbT anti fouling paint will kill the paint.
I'm not going to add it even if I had it, and I don't, but what do you mean by "Kill" the paint?
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:27   #42
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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I'm not going to add it even if I had it, and I don't, but what do you mean by "Kill" the paint?
Tin boosters are incompatible with non-TbT paints and my understanding that adding it to a copper-based paint for instance, will lead to adhesion issues.

Maybe "kill" is too strong a word.
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Old 24-03-2016, 08:53   #43
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

It's true in the US that federal and many state (including California) laws contain an exception allowing TBT paint to be used on underwater alumin(i)um. Not just hulls, but drive legs and other underwater Al.

However, under federal law only TBT paints certified by the EPA may be sold:

Quote:
The Act also prohibits the sale or delivery of an antifouling paint containing organotin or the application of paint to a vessel, unless the paint is certified by the Administrator of the EPA as a “qualified antifouling paint containing organotin.” A qualified paint is a paint containing organotin that is allowed to be used under the terms of a final decision of the Administrator or certified as having a release rate of not more than 4.0 micrograms per square centimeter per day
That's from a description of the Organotin Antifouling Paint Control Act (OAPCA). Effectively, the EPA can (and has) shut down TBT paint sales within the US simply by not certifying a TBT paint. So, while it may still be allowed on underwater Al in the laws, the paint certification process makes the paint unavailable for use in that manner.
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Old 24-03-2016, 17:47   #44
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Tin boosters are incompatible with non-TbT paints and my understanding that adding it to a copper-based paint for instance, will lead to adhesion issues.

Maybe "kill" is too strong a word.
Maybe "incompatible" is too strong a word also?

I've met many cruisers who add 3 - 5% (by volume) of TBT additive to brand name copper-based (and pesticide-based) ablative antifoul. They claim the additive doubles or triples the effective antifouling life with any adhesion issues. Works with hard antifoul paints too.

At some point, around 10% by volume, the TBT additive does lead to adhesion issues.

So there are trade-offs: a little organo-tin goes into the marine environment; but less copper and pesticide goes into the environment (because of a longer antifoul cycle halving the amount of copper, pesticide and related binders ablated into the ocean).

With respect to cargo ships, one story is that the TBT antifouling manufacturers were on the verge of reaching the optimum TBT antifoul formula (with matrix, binders, and TBT concentration that delivered maximum antifouling effectiveness with the minimum of TBT released into the environment). But then governments acted to ban TBT because of observed effects from the first generation of TBT paints, when the antifoul manufacturers had a higher concentration of TBT and a different set of matrix and binders.

The unintended consequence of the ban on TBT was to send cargo shipping backwards two steps: fouling increased, leading to higher fuel costs, a shorter antifouling cycle, and a higher spread of invasive species carried across oceans as fouling.

Note the general hypocrisy of everyone in the debate, including myself. I'm writing this on a PC powered by burning coal. Knowing that almost every chunk of coal burned adds mercury into the air. And that most of that mercury ends up as organo-mercury in marine food chains. So if you or I eat marine fish (or aquacultured fish fed with fish meal), we're consuming toxic organo-mercury from coal-fired power stations (and iron smelting etc).
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Old 24-03-2016, 21:07   #45
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Re: TBT Antifouiling and dessalinator\watermaker

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Note the general hypocrisy of everyone in the debate, including myself. I'm writing this on a PC powered by burning coal. Knowing that almost every chunk of coal burned adds mercury into the air. And that most of that mercury ends up as organo-mercury in marine food chains. So if you or I eat marine fish (or aquacultured fish fed with fish meal), we're consuming toxic organo-mercury from coal-fired power stations (and iron smelting etc).
Ah... but where does Hg really come from?
Did you know that more Hg is emitted into the Air from the ground in the State of NV than from all of US Power Plants? There is no such thing as a "clean coal power plant" but lets not get sucked into the hysteria.

RO...check out the molecular size of a Cl- and Na+ ion and then compare that to the molecular size of other contaminants. Rest well at night in knowing that if the RO Membrane in your water maker can remove 99.4% of the salt ions, larger molecules like your boat neighbors sewage won't make it into your water tank...no matter how horrible it sounds.
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