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Old 03-12-2014, 22:33   #1
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Synthetic Rigging

Here are a few shots of the new Dynex Dux synthetic standing rigging I just spliced up and fitted to my Hunter 40. 2 done another 12 to go!
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Old 03-12-2014, 23:39   #2
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

Thanks for being one of the brave to experiment with this.

What do you think the advantages are, and what are the potential down falls? The first thing I would be worried about is UV, but then I don't know the specs on the product.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:01   #3
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Thanks for being one of the brave to experiment with this.

What do you think the advantages are, and what are the potential down falls? The first thing I would be worried about is UV, but then I don't know the specs on the product.
Hi avb3

The way I see it is that I can fix, repair or replace it anywhere.
It is lighter than 1x19 wire. From my research 1kg saved aloft = about 7kg on the keel, therefore increased stability and a stiffer boat. This in turn allows more sail to be carried for longer leading to a faster boat.

This product is dyneema that has been heat treated and pre-stretched to double the breaking load and minimise any residual stretch. It is twice the strength of 1x19 wire. Synthetic rigging is sized to minimise the stretch as it is plenty strong enough size for size.

It has also been treated for UV protection.

The biggest problem I had was finding reliable and accurate information on shrinkage due to the splicing process and how much of that shrinkage I would recover when I re-stretched the finished stay to reset the braid. Usually referred to a constructional creep. Most of this information was very approximate. That is OK if you are finishing off with lashing but not too flash if you are going to turnbuckles as I have! After a lot of calculations I only had to redo 1 splice. The stays were re-stretched at 3300kg, way over loads expected in service. Hunter rates their 1x19, 3/8" wire stays at 1345kg service load.

I expect at least 8 years service out of these stays. They will visually show any abrasion or UV damage by going furry.

If you do it yourself, the price is comparable to 1x19 wire. If done by a rigger I suspect it would be about 1.5 times the cost of 1x19 wire. There may be some different fittings required at the mast to accommodate the thimble/terminator instead of a swage.

Downfalls could be service life but the distributors quote 8 years and expect longer. Abrasion may be an issue but woven dyneema covers can be added during construction to minimise this in potential abrasion areas, sheets rubbing or chafe on fittings or other stays.

Time will tell………...
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:13   #4
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

I have had my dynex for 5 years and it's great. I used 7mm (16,500 lbs strengh), and it cost $1.80/ft what I got 2010.

A few things.... splice shorter than you think.. or try to make it fit with the turnbuckle at max. The line doesn't stretch but the splices set quite a number of inches. Worst case you can add a shackle. To shorten if it's too long is harder, but it's possible to push dyneema (or other plastic) strands tapered inside the line anywhere along it which shortens the total length.

I didn't find this out until months later when I was beating up the sea of cortez and found I had to tighten all the turnbuckles by 6-8 full turns each.

I used bronze turnbuckles and chainplates.

If you want it to last 8 years.. it should fine. If you want it to last as long as a fiberglass hull, or at least 20-30 years.. then stick it in black shrink wrap to protect it from sun and abrasion.

I use mine unprotected for the forestay with bronze hanks, and after this time, it has a small amount of wear, but less than 10% of strength lost from the look of it. I recommend for using with hanks either bronze or soft shackle, but the bronze hanks I have have no sharp edges.

Really the question for rigging is either synthetic or galvanized steel. Synthetic is nicer feel no rust and light, but galvanized is cheaper and no abrasion or uv problems. Both last a long time.

Stainless in 304 or 316 is the wrong material, and should never be used in high strain applications like standing rigging.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:26   #5
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I have had my dynex for 5 years and it's great. I used 7mm (16,500 lbs strenght), and it cost $1.80/ft what I got 2010.

A few things.... splice shorter than you think.. or try to make it fit with the turnbuckle at max. The line doesn't stretch but the splices set quite a number of inches. Worst case you can add a shackle. To shorten if it's too long is harder, but it's possible to push dyneema (or other plastic) strands tapered inside the line anywhere along it which shortens the total length.
As I said above, getting empirical information on splice shrinkage and the resulting construction creep when re-stretched was very difficult. The splices I did were a modified brummel splice with two lock tucks and 72 times diameter bury, of which 44 times diameter was tapered. The whole splice must be undone in order to adjust the length. My stays ended up 10mm longer than the target length.


Quote:
If you want it to last 8 years.. it should fine. If you want it to last as long as a fiberglass hull, or at least 20-30 years.. then stick it in black shrink wrap to protect it from sun and abrasion.
The shrink wrap idea is interesting, how much wear/abrasion does it handle? Shrink wrap comes in lots of colours so the final product could be any colour you wanted!! When applying shrink wrap you need to be very careful with the heat as the Dynex Dux will melt at 154 C.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:23   #6
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by 40 South View Post
As I said above, getting empirical information on splice shrinkage and the resulting construction creep when re-stretched was very difficult. The splices I did were a modified brummel splice with two lock tucks and 72 times diameter bury, of which 44 times diameter was tapered. The whole splice must be undone in order to adjust the length. My stays ended up 10mm longer than the target length.




The shrink wrap idea is interesting, how much wear/abrasion does it handle? Shrink wrap comes in lots of colours so the final product could be any colour you wanted!! When applying shrink wrap you need to be very careful with the heat as the Dynex Dux will melt at 154 C.
This extremely interesting - certainly for those of us planning an extended cruise - carry spare shrouds is a big time hassle, but carry 20 meter of Dyneema is easy.

Re the shrink wrap - most of these will melt with the heat generated by a hair dryer -. Using one of these there should be no problems with the Dyneema.

Red and green shroulds? Hmmmm - that way we won't get starboard and port mixed up

Please post some experiences when you have sailed upwind is hard weather (say 25-30+ knots?). It will be interesting to hear if the rig stays stiff.
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Old 04-12-2014, 12:27   #7
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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This extremely interesting - certainly for those of us planning an extended cruise - carry spare shrouds is a big time hassle, but carry 20 meter of Dyneema is easy.
The material is not dyneema/spectra that you would buy at your chandler however dyneema is the base rope that has been heat treated (steamed) and pre-stretched. This makes it quite stiff and does not stretch like dyneema would in the same circumstances. Having said that it would still be much easier to find a place to store on extended cruises as a spare/emergency stay than 1x19 wire.

Quote:
Please post some experiences when you have sailed upwind is hard weather (say 25-30+ knots?). It will be interesting to hear if the rig stays stiff.
Will do. I expect about 10mm stretch over the life of the stay, after an initial settling in period. Though I did re-stretch the splices at 3300kg, approx. 20% of the published breaking strain so maybe there won't be the settling in period.
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Old 04-12-2014, 14:29   #8
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

I have had Dux stays for about a year living on a trimaran in Jamaica. So far no issues at all.

I would be very hesitant however about using heat shrink. It isn't a problem in itself, but Dux isn't very heat tolerant and a normal heat gun will ruin it. The critical temprature is around 220F if I remember correctly, so soaking it in boiling water is fine, anything much hotter and you start destroying the line.

As for chaff... This stuff is incredibly hard to cut, let alone chaff thru. On my big boat we made up a test piece of 1/2" dyneema to act as a dock line leader from the concreet dock to the stern line. The expectation was that the sharp edges would abrade the line relatively quickly... Instead the line chewed thru the concrete and smoothed the edge without substantial damage to the line. Absent going at it with a ceramic knife and abrasion should be noticeable long before it effects strength.
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Old 04-12-2014, 15:01   #9
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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I have had Dux stays for about a year living on a trimaran in Jamaica. .
You aren't on a Bene in New Orleans?

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Old 04-12-2014, 15:39   #10
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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You aren't on a Bene in New Orleans?

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Old 05-12-2014, 07:09   #11
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Though I did re-stretch the splices at 3300kg, approx. 20% of the published breaking strain
I'm curious how you did this. Did you use a hydraulic/mechanical rig to pull it?
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:29   #12
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Stainless in 304 or 316 is the wrong material, and should never be used in high strain applications like standing rigging.
Really??? Seems pretty radical statement considering +/- 90% of the sailboats on the water are using SS 1X19 for their standing rigging and most of the rest are using SS rod.

I use Staloks and keep a spare piece of wire on the boat so can also repair or replace rigging anywhere and don't have to worry about stretching.

Dyneema could be an excellent option for standing rigging but I think it's a bit much to wholesale condemn SS. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:03   #13
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Here are a few shots of the new Dynex Dux synthetic standing rigging I just spliced up and fitted to my Hunter 40. 2 done another 12 to go!
Great stuff Craig!
I'm going with a mix of synthetic and std 1x19 when I get around to re-rigging...

Are you doing everything? (diagonals weren't done yet in the photo) Forestay, Backstay? (or does ya have a B n R?)


Quote:
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Please post some experiences when you have sailed upwind is hard weather (say 25-30+ knots?). It will be interesting to hear if the rig stays stiff.
Carsten,
From what I understand of all of the investigation done thus far... Is that STRETCH from Static and Dynamic loading of the synthetic is LESS than 1x19... Long term creep is more, but can be compensated for...

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Really??? Seems pretty radical statement considering +/- 90% of the sailboats on the water are using SS 1X19 for their standing rigging and most of the rest are using SS rod.
Twas rather bold wasn't it Skip...
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Old 06-12-2014, 17:00   #14
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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I'm curious how you did this. Did you use a hydraulic/mechanical rig to pull it?
I went to a local crane hire company who were prepared to indulge (humour) me for the pricely sum of a slab (box of beer). They lifted 3300 kg of steel plates. The weight was as registered on their load cell on the crane.
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Old 06-12-2014, 17:08   #15
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Great stuff Craig!

Are you doing everything? (diagonals weren't done yet in the photo) Forestay, Backstay? (or does ya have a B n R?)
I will be replacing everything except the forestay as I think the roller furled might be a bit savage on the Dux. I had to do the D1's (deck to under 1st spreaders) now as one of the swages in the 1x19 wire had a 50mm crack and the insurance company wouldn't cover the rig while sailing or using the sails! The rest will be replaced mid next year.

Yes I have the B&R rig but with a backstay. I hope to thread the HF radio wire antenna inside the backstay.
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