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Old 18-07-2016, 17:42   #61
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

We're at three years on the trimaran and still love it (dux), my cat is running sk99 d12 Max HSR for the last six months, and I love it as well.

Other than probably diamond stays I don't envision ever using wire again.
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Old 18-07-2016, 21:26   #62
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

Thats encouraging Stumble, though the average tri rig is less critical of exact tension than a multi swept spreader rig like the hunters have. Any noticable change due to cold temps?

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Old 18-07-2016, 21:56   #63
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

Any thoughts about using traditional parcel and serving (no place for the worm) on synthetic rigging?

Steve
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Old 18-07-2016, 22:34   #64
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Any thoughts about using traditional parcel and serving (no place for the worm) on synthetic rigging?

Steve
I have an Isomat spar and spreaders so I will have to do this to prevent chafe there. I'll be following Brion Toss methods found in his book. I'm using sports tape for the parcel and then serving with a 1mm dynnema whipping twine outside of the tape. I thought about just sewing some leather to the areas tight, steering wheel wrap method but we'll see.

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Old 18-07-2016, 23:11   #65
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Any thoughts about using traditional parcel and serving (no place for the worm) on synthetic rigging?

Steve
I was wondering if normal white insulation tape would increase the lifespan by cutting UV and chafe. No good for a high wear area, but possibly ok for a normal shroud and easy to replace and touch up. It would take a lot of rolls to do a whole shroud but its quick enough. We sometimes cheated on square riggers and used it instead of parcelling with linseed oil soaked canvas before serving.

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Old 19-07-2016, 07:26   #66
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Thats encouraging Stumble, though the average tri rig is less critical of exact tension than a multi swept spreader rig like the hunters have. Any noticable change due to cold temps?

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Neither boat has ever seen real cold so I can't speak to it. The line itself was designed for North Sea fisheries so I doubt it. The one issue you may have is that dyneema gets longer when it gets cold while aluminium shrinks, so you may need to retension twice a year. If I remember correctly John Franta (colligio) has mentioned that a temprature change of about 60 degrees is required to make any real difference unless you are racing, at which point you need to retension daily anyway.
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Old 19-07-2016, 07:30   #67
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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I have an Isomat spar and spreaders so I will have to do this to prevent chafe there. I'll be following Brion Toss methods found in his book. I'm using sports tape for the parcel and then serving with a 1mm dynnema whipping twine outside of the tape. I thought about just sewing some leather to the areas tight, steering wheel wrap method but we'll see.

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I never discount what Toss suggests. But instead of parcel and serving I would be tempted to just install dyneema chaff sleeves anywhere I was concerned about it. Particularly over spreaders I think it would be a much more secure way to handle it.


Keep in mind dyneema is the most chaff resistant fiber on the planet (it's actually more abrasion resistant that stainless wire of the same thread size). So often the best option to control chaff is simply to add more dyneema. A chaff sleave if you want it to be replaceable, a larger size if not.
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Old 19-07-2016, 07:50   #68
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Any updates on how the dux rigging is working out? I am still toying with giving it a go. Saw a neat job on a traditional yacht today that got me back thinking about it.



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We use dyneema for our (running) bobstay and running back stays as well as guard wires (lifeline). When we rerig we will likely use Dux for standing rigging parceled and served though.


Your photo shows something that I often wonder about-- the lower fitting of the seizing (the lanyard part if this were a traditional deadeye and lanyard setup) is using a shackle that probably has a pin of too small radius for the Dux employed, thus weakening the line as it is wrapped around it.

I see this kinda thing all the time with synthetic lifelines or other use of dyneema or Dux. There's the mfr recommended minimum radius and then what people actually do. I'd be careful and use end fittings that achieve the requirements of the materials used.


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Old 19-07-2016, 08:35   #69
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I never discount what Toss suggests. But instead of parcel and serving I would be tempted to just install dyneema chaff sleeves anywhere I was concerned about it. Particularly over spreaders I think it would be a much more secure way to handle it.


Keep in mind dyneema is the most chaff resistant fiber on the planet (it's actually more abrasion resistant that stainless wire of the same thread size). So often the best option to control chaff is simply to add more dyneema. A chaff sleave if you want it to be replaceable, a larger size if not.
Stumble, A sleeve would certainly be a quicker installation than serving and would provide great chafe protection. However, for me at least, UV protection is just as important as chafe. I'm not sure how well a sleeve could be incorporated to the shroud terminations.

Also, Serving is able to be coated (painted) and therefore protected somewhat from UV. With the occasional re-coating, a parcel and served dyneema rig could last almost indefinitely with very little effort.

A light weight, very strong, and everlasting rig has great appeal to me.

Steve

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Old 19-07-2016, 09:03   #70
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I never discount what Toss suggests. But instead of parcel and serving I would be tempted to just install dyneema chaff sleeves anywhere I was concerned about it. Particularly over spreaders I think it would be a much more secure way to handle it.


Keep in mind dyneema is the most chaff resistant fiber on the planet (it's actually more abrasion resistant that stainless wire of the same thread size). So often the best option to control chaff is simply to add more dyneema. A chaff sleave if you want it to be replaceable, a larger size if not.
That's a great point Stumble, my only caveat is that the shrouds are already made up so I'm not sure if the dynnema sleeve will fit over the Colligo eye fittings. I have never messed with the stuff, which is why I suggested parceling with sports tape and covering (serving) that with 1mm dynnema whipping line for its superior chafe resistance.

Do you think the sleeving could make it over the fittings?

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Old 19-07-2016, 09:06   #71
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
I was wondering if normal white insulation tape would increase the lifespan by cutting UV and chafe. No good for a high wear area, but possibly ok for a normal shroud and easy to replace and touch up. It would take a lot of rolls to do a whole shroud but its quick enough. We sometimes cheated on square riggers and used it instead of parcelling with linseed oil soaked canvas before serving.

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SnowP, I did a google search for "UV resistant tape" and got lots of hits for tapes that make that claim, however I could not find 'service life' data on any of them. I wonder which tape material would be the most UV resistant?

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Old 19-07-2016, 10:33   #72
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Stumble, A sleeve would certainly be a quicker installation than serving and would provide great chafe protection. However, for me at least, UV protection is just as important as chafe. I'm not sure how well a sleeve could be incorporated to the shroud terminations.

Also, Serving is able to be coated (painted) and therefore protected somewhat from UV. With the occasional re-coating, a parcel and served dyneema rig could last almost indefinitely with very little effort.

A light weight, very strong, and everlasting rig has great appeal to me.

Steve

No, once they are made up you would have to undo the splices and remake then to install chaff sleeves.

What you are suggesting is actually on the market and sold commercially by Colligio. I think they sell it as Colligio DynIce or something. It's just Dux that has been wrapped with small dyneema. I don't think they then recommended coating it, but you certainly could. If the maintenance is kept up the base line should last forever.

Personally I doubt it's worth it, the uncovered dux has a service life of about 8 years, at which point you can splice more on in a few minutes. I would rather just replace it than spend the time protecting it. It isn't that expensive after all.
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Old 19-07-2016, 10:38   #73
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
We use dyneema for our (running) bobstay and running back stays as well as guard wires (lifeline). When we rerig we will likely use Dux for standing rigging parceled and served though.


Your photo shows something that I often wonder about-- the lower fitting of the seizing (the lanyard part if this were a traditional deadeye and lanyard setup) is using a shackle that probably has a pin of too small radius for the Dux employed, thus weakening the line as it is wrapped around it.

I see this kinda thing all the time with synthetic lifelines or other use of dyneema or Dux. There's the mfr recommended minimum radius and then what people actually do. I'd be careful and use end fittings that achieve the requirements of the materials used.


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Testing has shown that dyneema (as opposed to a HSR variety) looses no strength at 1:1 d/D. So long as the lower pin is at least the size of the lashing line it will carry the full strength. Also keep in mind that the lashings are generally considered replacement items. As they wear or uv degrade they shouldbe replaced, or just replaced every year for safety.

On the cat I use lashings, which work out to be about 10 times stronger than the shroud before any strength loss. On the bigger tri we use turnbuckles because I wanted more repeatability.
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Old 19-07-2016, 10:39   #74
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
I have an Isomat spar and spreaders so I will have to do this to prevent chafe there. I'll be following Brion Toss methods found in his book. I'm using sports tape for the parcel and then serving with a 1mm dynnema whipping twine outside of the tape. I thought about just sewing some leather to the areas tight, steering wheel wrap method but we'll see.

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
Have your shroud caps been replaced with dyneema friendly ones? If not this is probably wherein would start.
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Old 19-07-2016, 10:58   #75
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Re: Synthetic Rigging

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Have your shroud caps been replaced with dyneema friendly ones? If not this is probably wherein would start.
Well I believe they are intrinsically pretty safe in how they are made.. I'm attaching a screen shot from Rigrite that has the spreader ends. They sort of cup the line, but we're intended for wire. I was just going to put a dynnema whipping on the dux just as extra. I have brand new ends going up so they are fresh anodized smooth aluminum.

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