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Old 03-12-2015, 12:36   #1
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Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Hey Everyone,

Really need some help sussing out whether this was repaired or was done this way as stock. The pic is from a Beneteau First 47.7 that I'm looking at to purchase.

The worry I have is that the boat hit something, had some structural issues as a result, and then was repaired (and the tabbing for the repair is already coming loose).

The other scenario is that this is the way the boat was built, and the tabbing just needs to be reinforced.

So, I put it to you, the wizards of the web.... whadda ya think?

Many Thanks!


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Name:	<a title=Beneteau Bilge.jpg Views: 240 Size: 26.3 KB ID: 114254" style="margin: 2px" />
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Old 03-12-2015, 13:42   #2
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Where ever that is in the boat, it looks like a quick repair, or ? I can't believe that would original from factory. It also looks like it is stressing/delaminating again, on the right side, or has structural issues/damage!
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Old 03-12-2015, 13:51   #3
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Unhappy Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Thanks for the reply. It is in the bilge pocket just aft of the mast (and just forward of the keel). Highly suspect it is!

Also, not sure whether this boat has a solid fiberglass hull below the waterline, or is cored. If it is cored then could have more serious damage hidden. If it is solid, then still could have stressed skin. That the grid system is trying to separate from the hull is not a good sign!
ARGH!!
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Old 03-12-2015, 13:55   #4
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

I don't know this boat model much less the space that this picture depicts, but that structure to the right of the photo looks like a limber hole rather than a flaw in the layup. I do see some dirt along the top edge of the poorly faired tape along that inside radius.

Does this space look significantly different than the other bilge sections? If they are all this sloppy, I would lament the sloppy work, but not necessarily condemn the boat. If this one is unique, I would assume some sort of repair.
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Old 03-12-2015, 14:01   #5
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?



That's a good point! Will try to get images of other bilge pockets. Definitely a limber hole, leading aft. Depth sounder/speedo thru hulls are visible. Always fun to yank one of those out while the boat is in the water! Heh Heh!

Or, it was fixed by a !!!
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Old 03-12-2015, 14:03   #6
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Does look like a limber hole, making it totally non-structural. But Beneteau will be quick to respond by phone or email, they would know for sure.
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Old 03-12-2015, 14:09   #7
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

The area I'm worried about is just outboard of the limber hole, in the tabbing. It has separated from the grid system. The other tabbing looks suspiciously amateur-like (lumpy glasswork, little tiny pieces, etc.) Not at all what I would expect from a big factory like Beneteau.

I have sent a message to the local dealer (Cape Yachts). Hope to get a reply, or have them forward the question to the appropriate person at the factory.
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:40   #8
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

A few more close up pictures, and details of the location on the boat would help. Film is cheap, lots more pics. Don't forget something for scale too.

If you are thinking of buying, be sure to make "survey to your satisfaction" a condition. Then get a surveyor with knowledge of grid structures.

Let us know what happens either way...please.
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Old 04-12-2015, 21:44   #9
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Thanks Hamburking!

The boat is located in Italy. Have asked the broker for more info, thus far, no answer! The advice for the contract is spot on, wouldn't do it any other way.

I've been at this boat quest thing for almost a year now, have seen all sorts of fun stuff:

a sink full of dishes (hey! maybe the left overs will sell the boat!)
cabins that look like a clothes bomb went off! (do those dirty socks come with the boat?)
cabins with sacked out semi-clothed occupants (includes crew!!)
a frightfully large number of rattle can painted diesel engines (let's paint the hoses and belts too, make-em match the rest!!)
weeping keels (no worries, just drop the keel...oops...some of the bolts are under the engine...ahh...so...pull the engine too!)
weeping rudders (boo hoo hoo!)
water stained woodwork (she's tight as as a drum) heh heh (must be condensation....
Mast taken down (but the wires were cut at the deck, including the radar cable...who would do that?)


The list goes on....

Trying to keep positive through the process...

Thanks for the support here!

Cheers!
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Old 04-12-2015, 22:41   #10
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Quote:
The other scenario is that this is the way the boat was built, and the tabbing just needs to be reinforced.
Beneteau's of this era (and newer) are built with a "pan liner" that's bonded to the hull with plexus polyester adhesive/gap filler. The rough looking weep hole you see is pretty common with this technique, as are the rough edges at the hull to pan joint. This looks like my 2004 Bene did. Nothing wrong with it structurally, it's just what you get at this price point. The problem with pan liners is if a major hull repair is required, as you cannot reach some areas without destroying the pan. Never an issue for most of us, but a major accident can "total" a boat due to labor costs in rare situations. This photo doesn't alarm me. Buying a used boat overseas does, however!
Recommend you look at a local Beneteau First 47.7 or 473's from that era '00-'05 and decide. You'll find articles on the web as well, just be wary of people who write about stuff without technical credentials or applicable experience. If you're still concerned, contact a GOOD yacht surveyor that does damage assessments for repair yards to discuss. Good luck!
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Old 04-12-2015, 22:55   #11
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nantasea View Post
Thanks for the reply. It is in the bilge pocket just aft of the mast (and just forward of the keel). Highly suspect it is!

Also, not sure whether this boat has a solid fiberglass hull below the waterline, or is cored. If it is cored then could have more serious damage hidden. If it is solid, then still could have stressed skin. That the grid system is trying to separate from the hull is not a good sign!
ARGH!!
Just read two articles on fin keels and the first were mentioned about having keels that would fall off on some light racers (get survey from reputable surveyor ) not just first's but oysters and others. Better safe than sorry or have deep pockets!
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Old 04-12-2015, 23:26   #12
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Re: Sussing out a repair - does this look wonky?

The keel repairs that I've done in the past were a failure of the keel to hull stub connection. Not too bad, just drop the keel, clean, and redo the bedding.

This one seems to have issues with the polyester adhesive, I assume that this method of construction means that tabbing is not necessary (and too time consuming). Those wimpy little pieces of cloth tape with resin are not likely to do much in the way of reinforcing a failing connection (between the grid and the hull).

My experience has been with manually tabbed bulkheads, not liners. SailorGerry's comment sums up one of the worst aspects of hull liner construction.

I've looked at local boats, see above comments. Their prices would have to fall dramatically before the purchase price would work (given the amount of repairs needed). Even if I just include materials and parts for repairs, and nothing for my labor , still doesn't add up!

Thanks for all the comments! Until I hear better info back from the broker, this boat is off the list!
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