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Old 02-12-2014, 13:57   #1
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Survey issues - with pictures

I read Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" a couple months ago and have been trying to spot issues while visiting boats (20-35 yr old cruisers 34-38'). Attaching some pics - how serious would you say these things are?

1. Rust-colored staining around bow stanchion bases. Just need to rebed the stanchions and replace fasteners?

2. Rust/water stain on chainplate in v-berth anchor locker wall (anchoring an inner forestay I believe). Not a big deal if the bulkhead isn't rotted?

3. Mildew on headliner in aft quarterberth. This is pretty mild so I think not that big a deal? (bleach + dehumidifier). On a different boat there was lots of mildew, on inner hull topsides, which I saw as a bigger deal no?

4. Cracking in the hull paint on the skeg. Probably just surface paint cracking? No way to tell from the pic whether it's structural?

5. [no pic]: Prior survey (4 yrs ago) found 2 small voids in deck, where the upper laminate separated from the balsa core, about 8x12" sections. No moisture identified, survey said it's not a structural issue at that time and recommended opening up, checking for moisture and if no moisture then filling with epoxy. PO fixed many of the issues from this 4-year-ago purchase survey, I'm surprised this one was not fixed. Seems some people consider voids no big deal and some consider it a big deal.
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Old 02-12-2014, 14:33   #2
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

Pic 2 Needs to be carefully investigated. Dissasemble the whole thing, pull the chainplate inspect/replace, Look for rot in the bulkhead, fix the leak, replace the fastnners.

Pic 4 looks like more than cracking paint ! Is it weeping moisture ? Looks like it may have been repaired at the bottom.
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Old 02-12-2014, 14:50   #3
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

The skeg crack looks like more than just a crack in the paint.
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Old 02-12-2014, 14:58   #4
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

That chainplate looks like its toast.. I would bet almost anything that you can find a crack under that rust bloom on the lower edge. Based off of the look of that one it would be a good idea to pull the rest of them and CLOSELY inspect/replace. If you know that one of them is bad there is a good chance that others will be as well. They are all the same age and have lived a similarly rough life after all..
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Old 02-12-2014, 15:18   #5
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

My take on these pix...

The rust stains on the bow pulpit flange: I'd pull the pulpit. I suspect you will find minor corrosion on the underside of the flange (no big deal) and/or corrosion of the fasteners. Also possible leakage into deck core if it is present in that area. Clean up flange, replace fasteners and re-bed. If there is core moisture, that is a different problem, and more difficult to address. Many descriptions of the process here on CF.

Headliner mildew: Something that happens, especially when aboat is closed up for a while. Due to condensation on the headliner, and almost certainly a cosmetic-only worry.

Skeg crack: That's a worry indeed. Have you tried a vigorous shaking back and forth of the rudder, whilst carefully watching the crack? Generally beyond internet judgement, but worthy of careful investigation in the yard.

Chainplate: I'd expect to find some possibly severe corrosion of the plate and of the fasteners there. Replacement of the s/s strap would likely be in order, but really not so big a deal if the picture shows the whole thing. As to the condition of other chain plates, they are most likely of quite different construction than the one in the middle of the foredeck. If a good visual inspection does not show similar rust issues I see no reason to condemn them out of hand. Of course, it is always better to pull and inspect if possible, but that may be beyond the purview of a prepurchase survey.

Usual caveat about "I ain't no expert, but"...

Good luck with your decision.

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Old 02-12-2014, 16:35   #6
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The crack in the skeg could be in filler where the fibreglass part of the skeg connects to a cast bearing housing. It does look ominous, but if it's along the join it might be fine.
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Old 02-12-2014, 16:48   #7
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

Lol There is a picture in the Yard guys or rudder failures with the skeg broken and is exactly as your skeg, dificult for the builder to laminate this área in the mold and the norm is filled with resin , if is a one piece mold, if is 2 pieces mold expect more glass content in the área in question, to me the crack looks very bad....
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Old 02-12-2014, 17:31   #8
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

I see lots of suspect wet core - in decks and in bulkead(s)....and a very suspect rudder skeg.

Serious depends on price and intended usage.

If just to float around the bay on nice weekends and uncertainty (no one will know for sure until Mr angle grinder gets to work) reflected in price then IMO not serious....

....but if intending to go around cape horn in winter with family then I would give this boat a pass.
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Old 02-12-2014, 17:35   #9
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

All of those things could be easily disguised.....

.....with boats it really is caveat emptor!
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Old 02-12-2014, 21:58   #10
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

Thanks! Note these weren't from the same boat - three different boats here. The skeg pic was from an older Bristol 35.5 that wasn't in too good shape (I didn't consider it after seeing it).

#2 (corroded chainplate on inner forestay) is a C&C, so the standard rigging (side stays) has rods going into the grid in the bilge. I don't know how to inspect the connection point on those (probably hard to get to). Would be interesting if I can find a diagram.

What about #5? (deck voids) If I order a full survey we'll do moisture metering of course, but that's not guaranteed to be accurate. Broker and previous surveyor gave the impression it's somewhat of a cosmetic thing. I guess that's true as long as you can ensure there are no adjacent deck penetrations that can leak into it?
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Old 02-12-2014, 23:12   #11
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

As far as # 5 goes it is easy to find delam on the deck by tapping the areas with a small ball peen hammer. This is described in Casey's book/ I did a full tap on the boat I bought prior to the surveyor having a look. If it is not a large area it is pretty easy to fix the deck with epoxy injected into holes that you drill in the deck. I think I would have the yard repair it before purchase though on the owners dime.
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Old 03-12-2014, 00:04   #12
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessellate View Post
...Broker and previous surveyor gave the impression it's somewhat of a cosmetic thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessellate View Post
...4-year-ago purchase survey...
It would be foolish indeed to make assumptions and purchase decisions based on a 4-year old sellers survey.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:54   #13
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
It would be foolish indeed to make assumptions and purchase decisions based on a 4-year old sellers survey.
I certainly agree, I'm not making any final decisions based on it. It's just a data source to use before deciding whether to make an offer. The survey was done by one of the best firms in the area, and the owner marked items which were corrected, so I know the uncorrected items are either in the same state, or worse.
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Old 13-12-2014, 11:51   #14
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Re: Survey issues - with pictures

Isn't that the rudder? The crack looks to be between the bottom of the rudder and the aperture above it.
I'd grind it to expose it and look further if it's the rudder, it probably wet, not good.
Doesn't look like the hull there.


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Old 13-12-2014, 11:56   #15
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Survey issues - with pictures

The skeg is below. And looks fine.
That my friend is your rudder and best grind that crack and see if it's wet in there.
That rudder is held together with a post and tangs in a grid, so it can rust out and come apart quite easily.


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