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Old 07-02-2013, 10:45   #1
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Superhydrophobic Coating?

Hi...

This came gallivanting across my Facebook wall today, and half-joking, I commented that it would make interesting bottom paint. Thoughts? It might have interesting hydrodynamic effects at the micro-level, not to mention anti-fouling properties. Or maybe it's insane in this environment.

I haven't dug into the MSDS to see what nasties are involved, nor even studied their application notes. Was surprised to see no search results on the product name here, so I'm curious what other folks think.

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(I'm nearing a haulout with 3-year-old Micron 66 on my steel hull, so like every other suffering sailor contemplating waving fronds of biology and related regulatory changes, I'm looking at every option!)

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Old 07-02-2013, 11:11   #2
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

Per MSDS: Top coat.

Quote:
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Environmental Fate: When released into the soil, this material is expected to readily biodegrade. When released into the soil, this material is expected to leach into groundwater. When released into the soil, this material is expected to quickly evaporate. When released into water, this material is expected to readily biodegrade. When released to water, this material is expected to quickly evaporate. This material has a log octanol-water partition coefficient of less than 3.0. This material is not expected to significantly bioaccu- mulate. When released into the air, this material may be moderately degraded by reaction with photochem- ically produced hydroxyl radicals. When released into the air, this material may be moderately degraded by photolysis. When released into the air, this material is expected to be readily removed from the atmosphere by wet deposition.
Environmental Toxicity: This material is not expected to be toxic to aquatic life. The LC50/96-hour values for fish are over 100 mg/l.
Quote:
13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Whatever cannot be saved for recovery or recycling should be handled as hazardous waste and sent to a RCRA approved incinerator or disposed in a RCRA approved waste facility. Processing, use or contamination of this product may change the waste manage- ment options. State and local disposal regulations may differ from federal disposal regu- lations. Dispose of container and unused contents in accordance with federal, state and local requirements.
It seems to have a lot of acetone 97% and silica 3% with a <1% proprietary additive, which is their secret. But I would say it's more toxic on it's installation then its cured state.

The bottom coat is basically a paint by it's ingredients with the same 12 & 13 info.

Another question would be removal of the stuff.
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Old 07-02-2013, 13:51   #3
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

"this material is expected to"
That puts me off. Expected? That means they actually don't know what the stuff is or does or how it travels and they probably don't really know what the magic ingredient DOES in general. Expected to evaporate OR biodegrade OR trickle down, and again, they just don't know which?
Here, try this pink nail polish instead. I expect it will scare the barnacles away.
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:13   #4
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"this material is expected to"
That puts me off. Expected? That means they actually don't know what the stuff is or does or how it travels and they probably don't really know what the magic ingredient DOES in general. Expected to evaporate OR biodegrade OR trickle down, and again, they just don't know which?
Here, try this pink nail polish instead. I expect it will scare the barnacles away.
That seems to be MSDS-speak... I Googled "MSDS expected" and there are about 3 million hits, such as this from Proctor and Gamble: "Ingestion: This product is expected to have a low order of toxicity"

Kind of like patent-speak: a plurality of wheels
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:23   #5
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

This type of material is not unique - there are lots of formulations. Use it on your electrical connections.

There is a company using on electronics. Just send in your iPhone and without a case it is permanently sealed away from moisture. You can even operate the phone underwater.

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Old 07-02-2013, 15:00   #6
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microship View Post
That seems to be MSDS-speak... I Googled "MSDS expected" and there are about 3 million hits, such as this from Proctor and Gamble: "Ingestion: This product is expected to have a low order of toxicity"

Kind of like patent-speak: a plurality of wheels
The MSDS links were at the bottom of the page/link you supplied.

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Old 07-02-2013, 16:00   #7
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

Micro-
It might be MSDS-speak, but it still falls in the category of "BS & FUD".
Like when you see a sign in the store window that says "SALE! UP TO 50% OFF!" When I see the "UP TO" I know that means there's one item in the store that has discounted that much, and they're just ashamed to say what the bulk of it is.
"BUY ONE, GET 2ND AT 50% OFF!" sounds a lot better than "Buy two, get 25% off" which is what that BS really translates into.

I don't buy it. Any of it. There's too much BS & FUD passed around, and we need to go back to fine old Yankee traditions, like tar and feathers, rail riding, and keel hauling, all of which can do wonders for truth in advertising.
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Old 07-02-2013, 20:52   #8
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microship View Post
Hi...

This came gallivanting across my Facebook wall today, and half-joking, I commented that it would make interesting bottom paint. Thoughts? It might have interesting hydrodynamic effects at the micro-level, not to mention anti-fouling properties. Or maybe it's insane in this environment.

I haven't dug into the MSDS to see what nasties are involved, nor even studied their application notes. Was surprised to see no search results on the product name here, so I'm curious what other folks think.
I think if it had possibilities as an anti fouling coating, the manufacturer would market it that way. But they don't.
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Old 07-02-2013, 20:55   #9
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

Very true, they don't... it was really more a bit of curiosity on my part, not an attempt to question any claims. Seems like fun and useful stuff; my first thought was how it would affect hydrodynamics, then I started wondering about long-term antifouling properties.

Cheers,
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Old 07-02-2013, 21:07   #10
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

When released into water, this material is expected to readily biodegrade. When released to water, this material is expected to quickly evaporate.

Sounds great! So long as you never put your boat in the water.
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Old 07-02-2013, 21:09   #11
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

I think what remains a little unclear there is the difference between "released," as a liquid, and "exposed," as a coating. One could say the same thing about any antifouling, using that term.

Really, just wondered if anyone has played with the stuff...

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Old 07-02-2013, 21:33   #12
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Several studies are underway on the use of these type of coatings to minimize biofouling. Initial tests look pretty good as long as there is water flow across the surface periodically. This stuff is getting to be lower cost all the time, two years ago getting a small panel coated was $100k, now less than $10k.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:44   #13
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Re: Superhydrophobic Coating?

More recent info on this stuff including first pricing info I've seen: Next Time Your Mom Says Don't Go Out in The Rain, Spray Yourself With This : Krulwich Wonders... : NPR
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