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Old 14-10-2011, 14:13   #1
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Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

Hello,

I just got some pictures of a Leopard 45 which is for sale and I'm interested in buying it. But after I got some bad pictures of cracks, I'm not sure anymore.
Could someone who knows the Leopard 45 give me an advice. Are that normal cracks which have all Leopard which are about 10 years old? Is that a structural crack?

Thanks in advance

Markus

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Crack at a door frame, which I saw on 3 other boats
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Crack under the berth in the front cabin port
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Old 14-10-2011, 14:47   #2
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

i would say stay away
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Old 14-10-2011, 15:11   #3
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

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i would say stay away

DITTO!
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Old 14-10-2011, 22:31   #4
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Is it just the gelcoat or all the way through?

Get the grinder out and go hunting, if you are worried.

Most cats seem to get the same thing and you just keep an eye on it. Are there cracks around the beam-to-hull joints, especially forward? Around the connection between bridge deck and each hull?
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Old 14-10-2011, 23:32   #5
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

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Is it just the gelcoat or all the way through?

Get the grinder out and go hunting, if you are worried.

Most cats seem to get the same thing and you just keep an eye on it. Are there cracks around the beam-to-hull joints, especially forward? Around the connection between bridge deck and each hull?
No, there aren't cracks around the beam.
Around the connections I don't know if there are cracks.

I would like to take out the grinder and go hunting, but it is not my boat, so I can't.

Maybe there is someone who had the same on his Leopard and can tell us more.

Thanks
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Old 15-10-2011, 04:00   #6
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

The hull is flexing.

My guess is delamination between the core and fibreglass skin (loss of strength - will simply get worse as the more flex the more delam). Could be that designer simply got his figures wrong.........or the price of lightweight / performance is a 10 year lifespan.

I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
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Old 15-10-2011, 06:28   #7
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

Five years ago I had a deposit down and a survey done on a Leopard 45 coming out of the Moorings fleet in Tortola. My surveyor found numerous cracks in the bulheads in the port hull. The fix was could not be done in the water with mast up as the loads were different than a fix on land (I am not an engineer). Moorings was not up for that and I walked. My surveyor very concerned, Moorings was not.
Hope this helps
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Old 15-10-2011, 06:46   #8
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

if there are cracks on the out side of the hull corresponding with the ones on the inside i'd be worried.

cracks in gel coat that has been applied after the hull has left the mold are not uncommon especially over joins.

delamination as seem in the bottom photo,of furniture that is non structural is not abnormal on a 10 year old vessel,and UNLESS EXTENSIVE is not really a cause for concern and easily fixed.

i've seen far worse
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Old 15-10-2011, 12:17   #9
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

These cats were built in South Africa and sailed to the US by delivery crews on a schedule.

Lots of opportunity for them to have been sailed hard in heavy seas.
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Old 15-10-2011, 21:07   #10
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

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These cats were built in South Africa and sailed to the US by delivery crews on a schedule.

Lots of opportunity for them to have been sailed hard in heavy seas.
Hi Phil,

that means what? These cracks are nothing to worry about? Especially the crack in the bottom picture?
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Old 15-10-2011, 22:19   #11
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

Flexing!!! Twisting!! Gelcoat is not flexible, if the layers of glass are intact ,well live with it, if not , like a previous post say, Run away...

Is not a surprise to me to see this kind of cracks, last Laggon i delivery to Martinique 2 years agoo suffer from this kind of problem to, Biscay Bay is a good place to test a structure...


I think Phil mean that sailing this cats from south africa to the other side in a schedule , mean heavy weather, you know, Bangg Bangg!!!

And BANG Bang in a thin constructed boat mean cracks like in the pics.

The one at the door frame is fine, but the one at the bottom looks ugly..
Good luck.
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Old 16-10-2011, 04:44   #12
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

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delamination as seem in the bottom photo,of furniture that is non structural is not abnormal on a 10 year old vessel,and UNLESS EXTENSIVE is not really a cause for concern and easily fixed.
It might be normal on your boats, but sure as sh#t isn't on any boat I had / do have / will ever have......and I ain't in the 6 figure market - I simply wouldn't want to throw my purchase money straight down the toilet (followed by the cash for the "fixes" - of the unfixable). But I appreciate that others may be happy with a different approach...........

The only reason the internal furniture would be fracturing like that is if the hull is flexing. If it's flexing with a core only a matter of time (10 years?) before you get (ever increasing) delam (which will get to be a structural issue). A couple of new hulls. and a new interior should fix it........until the next time

Opening and closing doors and draws under sail in a bit of a blow would be interesting......


Quote:
i've seen far worse
Me too. but I never bought 'em I dunno what they would normally sell for, but from the previous comments (on other vessels), pennies on the dollar as a houseboat would seem about right .


and from the state of those charts either the bunk occupant is incontinent or their is water ingress from somewhere. and I doubt it is rainfall

In any event the owner must be insane to even try and sell looking like that - for 6 figures some epoxy filler and paint to bodge over the evidence would seem a good investment (even if you have to pay a "proffesional" to do that for you). Hey, it's business - yer allowed to skin the other fella
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Old 16-10-2011, 06:29   #13
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

since they are all built the same if there was an inherent fault it would very soon show up in other vessels of the same model.

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Old 16-10-2011, 07:22   #14
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

Aside from the centre photo they only look like gel coat cracks. Not unusual on older boats. Your marine surveyer will set you straight on whether they are cosmetic or serious structual problems though..
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Old 16-10-2011, 07:43   #15
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Re: Structural Cracks on a Leopard 45?

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since they are all built the same if there was an inherent fault it would very soon show up in other vessels of the same model.

Robertson and Caine | World Class Catamarans
That link certainly gives the model glowing reports

Comments earlier in the thread do suggest a 10 year timeline.......but probably restricted to those that have been sailed in bigger seas, or been beached regularly.....well, at least for a few more years.

The fix is bodge, keep quiet and sell on........so not expecting a lot of tales to be told.
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