Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-10-2009, 03:18   #31
Registered User
 
creakyboy's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: QLD Australia
Boat: Wharram Tiki 31 Slipper
Posts: 96
One thing in them that You may find interesting re:Your comments bout 30ft may be big enough the 'child of the sea' has a waterline length of just 28'6"
__________________

__________________
creakyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2009, 03:40   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by creakyboy View Post
One thing in them that You may find interesting re:Your comments bout 30ft may be big enough the 'child of the sea' has a waterline length of just 28'6"
Hmm, not so big as I thought, maybe just about right.
Anything about loading capacity?
Man, I didn't know big boats were being built like canoes, I was excited about this being an old school stripper. I'm not sure glass and epoxy are good for cruisers. First, ridiculous costs, of course that applies to everything today. But how many tropical islands stock glass and epoxy on the shelves? And what's wrong with wood by itself anyway?
__________________

__________________
weedeater64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2009, 03:44   #33
Registered User
 
creakyboy's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: QLD Australia
Boat: Wharram Tiki 31 Slipper
Posts: 96
Design specs say loading capacity is 1.5 tonnes and also that building material is ply/strip plank/glass/epoxy,You could always just take some epoxy with You
__________________
creakyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2009, 09:56   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth,Minnesota
Boat: Lindenberg 26 & Aloha 8.2
Posts: 984
To build this boat "old school style" strip plank you would doubtless need to increase the planking thickness and edge fasten and add some more framing as it likeley only uses the bulkheads as transverse members,you could steam in some ribs between,but remember that any extra weight you add to the build you get to subtract from the payload,theres no free lunch.Is your objection to epoxy/glass just a financial thing? there are quite a few less expensive and just as good or better alternatives to the big name brands available online,also going the epoxy route you will use less wood(money) and eliminate almost all permenant fasteners(money)If you were to strip plank without glueing and sheathing you would certainly want to edge nail with bronze as water will get at the fasteners(read expensive). Its a very cool boat and my advice would be to build it as designed and go sailing.
Steve.
__________________
clockwork orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2009, 06:22   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 33
Quote:
To build this boat "old school style" strip plank you would doubtless need to increase the planking thickness and edge fasten and add some more framing as it likeley only uses the bulkheads as transverse members,you could steam in some ribs between,but remember that any extra weight you add to the build you get to subtract from the payload,theres no free lunch.
Yeah, I figured that. I could add a good bit of weight and still have a loading capacity of better than a ton.

Quote:
Is your objection to epoxy/glass just a financial thing? there are quite a few less expensive and just as good or better alternatives to the big name brands available online,
Or better? Care to name one?
Financial is one thing. Can't find it in out of the way places for repairs. Not sure I trust it. I mean come on, a glued wooden boat, on the ocean? Really?
And again, isn't wood more proven? Thicker, heavier I can live with if means safer.

Quote:
you would certainly want to edge nail with bronze as water will get at the fasteners(read expensive).
What about copper?

Quote:
Its a very cool boat and my advice would be to build it as designed and go sailing.
Steve.
With a bit of reading and some more opinions I may do just that.
__________________
weedeater64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2009, 12:22   #36
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eastern Seaboard
Boat: Searunner 34 and Searunner Constant Camber 44
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater64 View Post
Or better? Care to name one? Financial is one thing. Can't find it in out of the way places for repairs.
Or better. No, likely not. The addage that you get what you pay for still holds true. However, in epoxies you might wish to look at MAS epoxies. Less expensive but still quite good. I personally like System Three. There is another one call East, which definitly appears to be a knock off of WEST.

Quote:
Not sure I trust it. I mean come on, a glued wooden boat, on the ocean? Really?
Yes, really. Some have been around for 40+ years.

Quote:
And again, isn't wood more proven? Thicker, heavier I can live with if means safer.
Let me refer you to this thread which Google ranks as #9 (do check out the references -- esp 2 & 3). The key points are wood/epoxy/glass doesn't rot and can be done just about anywhere.

Quote:
With a bit of reading and some more opinions I may do just that.
Let me give you one piece of unsolicited advice which gets to the heart of the "good luck with that" and "I would seriously reconsider" posts on the previous page. Trust that the designer knows more about designing a boat than you do and has that he has reason based of experience and training. If you have it have it your way, have one design a custom boat for you. If you think you are going to take a stock design, make some serious modifications and that everything will be just fine, you really, really want a new hobby.
__________________
Regards,

Maren

The sea is always beautiful, sometimes mysterious and, on occasions, frighteningly powerful.
Maren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2009, 16:41   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth,Minnesota
Boat: Lindenberg 26 & Aloha 8.2
Posts: 984
Ok,i only put in those 2 words,or better because i new it would stir the pot a little,and it did. But really, all the epoxy marketers out there are just refomulators who use base resins from the same few manufacturers such as Dow and Shell,they then formulate for their take on what is needed for the job at hand,the big name guys dont have any BETTER formulations than some of the small players,just different.As an example i,like maren,prefer the properties of Systems threes general purpose system to the rather brittle West system,i also prefer the more sensible 2:1 mix ratio and calibrated cups.that said,i mostly use west because it is adequate,and every customer is familiar with the name and i can get it for a better price,on my own boats i avoid west system.I have also used Epiglass,Mas,Hardman,SP systems,FGI,Ciba Giegy,Raka,Jeffco,Hexcell and im sure others over the nearly 40 years ive been boatbuilding,some i liked ,some not so much, I quite liked the Raka and actually prefer it to West and the price is very reasonable,there are several ones online that are very reasonable priced which i havnt tried yet,my point is they all work and you dont need to pay the obscene prices the big guys charge.
Ok,on the subject of longevity of wood,epoxy boats,ARE YOU KIDDING? this type of construction has been proven decicivley in the US for about 40yrs as Maren pointed out and for 50+yrs in New Zealand and Aus. this is not some new fangled technology.
Steve.
__________________
clockwork orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2009, 20:49   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maren View Post
There is another one call East, which definitly appears to be a knock off of WEST.
Ya think?



Quote:
Yes, really. Some have been around for 40+ years.
Ah but, haven't some wooden boats been around a good deal longer?



Quote:
The key points are wood/epoxy/glass doesn't rot and can be done just about anywhere.
Tis my understanding that if water gets inside the wood will rot, where as in a wooden boat if you keep it salted and aired it should be fine indefinitely. Did I miss something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maren View Post
If you think you are going to take a stock design, make some serious modifications and that everything will be just fine, you really, really want a new hobby.
I know enough to consult the designer before making changes this drastic. Thanks.
__________________
weedeater64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2009, 21:17   #39
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater64 View Post
Ah but, haven't some wooden boats been around a good deal longer?
and others are rotten piles of puss.

Those strip planked boats (glass and epoxy) that are 50 years old may have another 50 plus left, did you think of that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater64 View Post

Tis my understanding that if water gets inside the wood will rot, where as in a wooden boat if you keep it salted and aired it should be fine indefinitely. Did I miss something?
Yes you did miss something

WRC and now Kiri, commonly used timbers for strip planking don't rot or if they do, very slowly.

I have WRC stakes in the garden from my last boat so they are at least 12 years old and they are fine, I have 4 year old kiri in the garden and they are fine as well.

Wet Kiri coffins have been dug up that are centuries old and show little signs of deterioration .

Compare that to other vessels that have not been correctly resin sealed or maintained that are now rotboxes.

Boatyards are full of them
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2009, 19:06   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 33
Quote:
Those strip planked boats (glass and epoxy) that are 50 years old may have another 50 plus left, did you think of that?
And if a 100 year old wooden boat is around another 50 years, which is the better boat?

Quote:
WRC and now Kiri, commonly used timbers for strip planking don't rot or if they do, very slowly.

Quote:
Wet Kiri coffins have been dug up that are centuries old and show little signs of deterioration
Then why glass them?

Quote:
Compare that to other vessels that have not been correctly resin sealed or maintained that are now rotboxes.
?? Were these coffins epoxy sealed? You're kinda loosing me here?
__________________
weedeater64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2009, 21:36   #41
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater64 View Post
And if a 100 year old wooden boat is around another 50 years, which is the better boat?
Stupid question, what if it rotted away 75 years ago because it wasn't sealed and maintained?

If you want to build a heavyweight cat that sails like a pig or a boat that needs heaps of maintenance, by all means don't glass, make things up yourself and see how it goes.

Quote:
Then why glass them?
HMMmm, more strength, less weight, less maintenance perhaps.

Perhaps google strip plank construction.
Click HERE and inform yourself as to why the norm is to glue glass strip planked boats.

Quote:
?? Were these coffins epoxy sealed?
No need, they were just a vessel for dead bodies, not meant for crossing oceans or even being on the water.

Quote:
You're kinda loosing me here?
I sort of figured that out but you mean losing surely?

It's OK, you lost me a while back.

Have fun with the build.
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Franmar's Soy Strip rebel heart Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 27-08-2010 14:14
Strip planking info wanted. viking69 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 24 29-08-2007 17:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.