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Old 10-08-2011, 17:50   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34
Lordy, Well at least I did not start an anchor thread. The engineer in me say regular galvanized steel will be stronger then stainless. Stainless means no greasy wires which is a big plus when I'm doing boat yoga in the lazzerette. I have a V-drive engine so the front of the engine is faceing the rudder post.

I worry about work hardening with stainless. The new synthetic ropes look pretty good, but I need something I can fix / replace in out of way places and my knot work leaves much to be desired. Though I have learned to do an eye splice in double braid. I'm also shy about being on the bleeding edge. Plus want it simple enough so I can deal with it too

Looks like I need to ponder this a little more.

Thanks Guys!!
Am steel is very easy to splice. Easy to have spare on board. If you needed to fix it you could without having terminal ends or wire splices. If you can do a eye splice in double braid you can do it easier in amsteel. The lashing is equally simple. Cutting edge was 3 or 4 years ago. I've had this inboard for uhhh maybe it's been 4 years. It has at least 4000 miles on it. I used fittings from colligo.. Looks brand new. Had it off last year to check it. I might have been cutting edge but it's proven now.if by chance it broke I can make a new section without going to a rigging shop o press new fittings. I kept the old stainless onboard for a while those are removed now. Cheap enough so I spliced an extra set. To re place all I have to do is a simple lashing
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Old 10-08-2011, 17:51   #17
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Good chance the strength of the steering cable is not the important design factor. They seem far oversized. It's probably more a wear and abuse factor. Or maybe stretch.

Asking: is galvanized wire actually good for running rigging? Seems like the galvanizing won't last long. It cant possibly wear well. Grease sounds better. Isn't that what the running rigging on working ships is made of?

Synthetic sounds good. Mainly because it would be so easy to replace. However it seems fragile. Seems like some tiny wear issue down below in the dark could easily ruin the steering and your day. And the weight savings is negligible.
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Old 10-08-2011, 17:52   #18
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

Hmmm ... My steering cable is also SS, and original, and vintage 1983. The arument for galv. steel is very interesting. I use "Fluid film" (lonolin based) on much of the corrosion prone items and this stuff might make Steel vs SS an interesting option.
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Old 10-08-2011, 17:55   #19
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

If the fishhooks bother you, galvanized wire is the better option. Either that or giving up yoga.
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Old 10-08-2011, 18:00   #20
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You can see by the bend the steel had to mak why I changed over. It tortured the steel. Tried getting the lashing but couldn't climb over the hot engine. So other shot is bottom of pedestal. Really not cutting edge and simple. Also breaking point of the eye bolt is around 3500lbs the am steel I think is 11,000 if I'm wrong it's still way over the eyebolts
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:28   #21
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

For systems that are easy to inspect, maintain, and easy to grease up, I have no problem with plain old steel. Steering systems are obviously very important, so I understand your thinking. If the original lasted ten years or more, and there are no service bulletins from the manufacturer, I would tend to stay with the tried and true.

After all the wear is fishhooks, not rust, so that's your likely failure mode, and stainless would not address that at all.

Look at these commercial trawlers. Steel everywhere. It's not a sin, it's just ugly.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:28   #22
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20man View Post
I have replaced a lot of my wire lines with dyneema. Fantastic.
I am wondering if anyone has used dyneema as a steering cable replacement.
That should be ideal. No?
Remember with high modulus line like Dyneema you need to be careful about sheave diameter. Too small a sheave diameter and the line will be damaged. I believe the ratio for Dyneema is 8:1 minimum so a 1/4" line would need a sheave at least 2" in diameter. And the Dyneema melts at 150 deg C.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:45   #23
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Osiris is right I used stainless thimble that match the colligo profiLe but I have seen where the the dimensions are disputed.I don't think I am any where near the stress point of failure given the load on the stainless eye bolt. Also it's proven in service that said there are better fittings to use at the quadrant you should really get them if your not sure.
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Old 10-08-2011, 19:55   #24
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Remember with high modulus line like Dyneema you need to be careful about sheave diameter. Too small a sheave diameter and the line will be damaged. I believe the ratio for Dyneema is 8:1 minimum so a 1/4" line would need a sheave at least 2" in diameter.
check out this: Crosby Catalog - Sheave Size & Wire Rope Strength

At a ratio of 8 steel wire looses 17% of it's strength. It's normal to find ratios of up to 40. The sheaves on Jedi are at a ratio of 37 (1' sheaves with 5/16" wire).

Hampidjans (manufacturer) states that a ratio of 10 for Dynex Dux eliminates all issues and ratios down to 5 are usable with decreased strength.

I think it's safe to assume that Dynex Dux is safe at the same sheaves as the steel wire was used. At equal diameter it's also stronger than the steel wire.

EDIT: Colligo Marine states a ratio of 5 for Dynex Dux.

ciao!
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Old 10-08-2011, 20:06   #25
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The ratio is at the turning block yes? The other ratio was of the size of the eye splice. Which is different in it's capacity. The older spec was the size I used I think newer stuff has a larger radius at the splice.I'm well within spec on my install given the loads but I think using the larger eyes is a good idea. If you look at how my quadrant is set up bending steel over that angle is torture. After I have replaced the auto pilot an anchor the sails I'll get a new quadrant.
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Old 10-08-2011, 20:26   #26
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

Well ok, my sheaves are at least 3" maybe 3-1/2" so probably not a problem. I'm thinking at the moment of using galvanized steel. Mainly because my pedestal appears to be a one off fabrication, (my Islander 34 is actually a Yachtcraft kit version) and I worry about chafe between the big honking chain in the pedestal and the Dyneema line. But I need to go down below with a mirror and a light to see how the cable attaches to the chain and the clearances. I'm betting it's with a fork connection, as thats whats on the quadrant side.

I did look at the splicing directions for the Dyneema and it seems doable.
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Old 10-08-2011, 20:41   #27
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
I'm betting it's with a fork connection, as thats whats on the quadrant side.
To adapt for that you can use stainless rings, or a single link of a stainless chain, that fits with the fork & pin. But yes you're gonna need room for thimbles in there.

If you can't find that room, I also recommend galvanized wire instead of stainless steel. I'm trying to remember what traditional schooners etc. use to protect this wire... isn't that done with varnish? That should work on the parts that do not hit sheaves etc.

ciao!
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Old 10-08-2011, 20:58   #28
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

Sailorchic,

We must be on the same dimensional plane. I just spent almost an entire weekend working out various steering "issues" left over from the previous owners repower. Amongst other things they omitted a bolt in a sheave block bracket, which caused the bracket to eventually tilt, which introduced slack, which caused the wire to jump, which got jammed under a sheave wheel, which broke a bunch of wires, and the chain jumped off the sprocket and needed to be recentered, etc. All work easily accessibly with one left hand at full extension while reaching through the lazaret hatch. Not to worry, I could slither right in as I was well lubricated with sweat in our 95 degree/95% humidity weather. But now the steering is working velvet smooth, like never before. What a difference.

Just last night I was reading Brent Swain's book and he makes a very strong argument for galvanized wire over stainless for halyards for the same reasons mentioned above.
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Old 10-08-2011, 21:14   #29
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The first time I took my pedestal apart bolts were snapping wouldn't budge. When I put it all together I coated everything liberally with lancote. Now when i check things the bolts come out easy. A tad off topic sorry. Easy piece of good practice while your in there
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Old 10-08-2011, 22:21   #30
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Re: Steering Cables - Steel or Stainless Steel ?

I like the idea of synthetic, I use it all the time. BUT, all sheaves must be clean, it cannot touch/rub against anything and keep it well away from anything hot, like exhaust. If you had meathooks maybe your sheaves are no longer in pristine condition. And make sure all sheaves turn as they should. Also, if you use rope you must be prepared to keep an eye on it at regular intervals, more regular than galv.
Are your cables kept under load? Most synthetics creep, so keeping them tight could be another little chore.
Good luck.
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