Steel hull construction

[topmast]

Most dreamers today don't have the skills to finish off a large round bilge steel 50' schooner. You get old on a big project.Funny how that happens.After 20 years or so the almost ready to launch (engine still in crate beside the boat) gets advertised on kijiji or used Victoria .It's in Sidney and it's a lot of boat well made.Lots of Brent boats around but most too smalll unless you're a minimalist hippie cruiser. Jon Hutton was another steel guru ,Built Bernard M's boat after Joshua was lost. Savoury is still in Sooke and may be for sale. (J Bouquist) Methinks if you're going to cut plate you got some major primary questions

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Try googling Brent swain origami steel boats

Better stay away from him. He knows just enouhg to have some credibility in the ears of a layman but being plain dangerous in the shortcomings of his quesswork...

BR Teddy

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Better stay away from him. He knows just enouhg to have some credibility in the ears of a layman but being plain dangerous in the shortcomings of his quesswork...

BR Teddy

Many designs and designers leave much guesswork or maybe flexibility to their design as well, Buehler comes into mind.
His concept is valid, though not without shortcomings, his designs requires reinforcement from furniture and bulwarks, that said there is a few origami boats designed by Yves Tanton, a certified and experienced NA, Brent's designs are proven too.
I heard from someone in the business for many years said that he never seen any amateur without prior boatbuilding experience finished a 40' boat. 39' is a lot of boat to finish without help, how are you going to turn and move the hull yourself?
I see it is easily above 8-10000 hours of work, takes 3-5 years or more of full time work.
I suggest it is better to buy a used boat to refit or finish an unfinished project, still you can have a yard finish a hull and structure and you fit it yourself if you wanted a new design and build.

Yes, cutting will have a lot of issues and labour involved unless you have CNC cutting for the design.

[AmericanVagrant]

Good example of someone that has done it, "Sailing the Farm" https://www.youtube.com/user/zeyang2/videos

39' aluminum boat - eight years working hard with multiple people involved before they were moving through the water. Huge accomplishment, my time is worth much more to me than to undertake such a thing.

I'd also recommend starting with a hull (at the very least) or just refit something in reasonable condition. Steel boats can be purchased very cheap (Australia has great deals on them).

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by JacoT

Hi Guys
Thank U for the quick reply to my vague post
On the good advice of one of the members, I compiled a small bio on me and my plans. Think this will help to clarify the back-ground of my questions
Cheers J

Just read your bio, OK by beach able, there are many twin keel designs by nature can do that, Pen-Gwyn on Tanton's site is close to what you want in size, Roberto Barros have twin keel on his smaller designs and swing keels on his 39' or 41'. I don't know if they by design can be beach able, some swing keels designs could, some not, you can ask the designer.
Mr Tanton have hundreds of designs over the years and not all of them listed on his website, you can ask him if he had anything that can fit what you want.
Beach able steel hulls and boats are somewhat less available in the used market, but still worth a search.

Don't rule out motor sailor even if you intend to sail, they might be even better as a liveaboard.

[Snowpetrel]

I really like the Robert Barros Multi Chine Swing Keel designs. Something like these make building more reasonable, as the swing keel beachable designs are rare.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I really like the Robert Barros Multi Chine Swing Keel designs. Something like these make building more reasonable, as the swing keel beachable designs are rare.

Yeah and better draft, possibly less drag than twin keel.
But possibly more complicated to build and maintain by having more moving parts on the hull, it is what it is.

[Snowpetrel]

^very true, twin keel has some huge benefits, simplicity and great hull protection.

I think the Brent Swain twin keelers are also a fine design.

[boden36]

Been there done that. Built a 36 ft steel yacht in the backyard. She turned out really well and we still have her thirty years on.
Took eight years to build, which is a long time but we sailed a trailer sailor whilst building.
I am lucky that I really like building things and am a competent steelworker.
I think most people would be much better off buying a used boat and just sailing.
My wife thinks that's what we should have done, maybe she's right, I really don't know.

Regards,
Richard.

[softdown]

Try you tube channel Sailing Emerald Steel. They built a 38' steel boat from scratch. There was an absolutely tremendous amount of welding done. They have now cruised for over 30 years. There is an episode covering the construction of their boat.

Most people never finish their boat project. Even those who do seem reluctant, at best, to encourage another to do so.

Sorry to be that guy but I would run as fast as I can from this project. Used boats that need a lot of work can be bought for cheap. Real cheap.

One guy spent 37 years building his wooden boat. Now he has some disease.

Then again, if you know that you will enjoy it......

[Wckoek]

I read about solitaire spirit: 3 times around the world, it is about a guy who build his boat in a yard who had some sort of scheme that gives assistant to the builder and enables them to build in their space.
The book is an excellent read if you can get it.

I think it is hard if not impossible to build a large boat all by yourself without any help, support of assistance, I couldn't imagine how you can turn a hull by yourself for example.

To those who did, build their own boat, how much assistance do you receive and at what stage in your building?

Even Spray was a rebuilt from an existing hull, as good as a shipwright Mr Slocum is.

[boden36]

My wife helped me build the boat. (And we are still together!!) We built her right way up so no turning.
I made a small mobile crane to help lift plates, frames etc.
We employed someone to do the abrasive blasting of the outside (I looked after the inside) and someone to do a lot of the carpentry inside.
It's best to think of boat building as a succession of small jobs, that way it is not so daunting.

Regards,
Richard.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by boden36

My wife helped me build the boat. (And we are still together!!) We built her right way up so no turning.
I made a small mobile crane to help lift plates, frames etc.
We employed someone to do the abrasive blasting of the outside (I looked after the inside) and someone to do a lot of the carpentry inside.
It's best to think of boat building as a succession of small jobs, that way it is not so daunting.

Regards,
Richard.

That is wonderful, especially for having a supportive wife.
I haven't heard of the design, on Boden's site there is only 2 motor sailer shown, most boat building, especially steel I've seen requires turning the hull, this along with insulating and other work makes me think twice about building myself.
You do need professional help at some stage of building.
Yes, succession of small job, also build as you can afford rather than buying a lump sump.

[knotstogo]

I'll second these suggestions:

Originally Posted by Wckoek

Dudley Dix and Devilliers have a few designs to your size.
Many have success with Bruce Roberts and have circumnavigated with them, there are unfinished projects that pop up on his brokerage site.

Originally Posted by softdown:2454530

Try you tube channel Sailing Emerald Steel. They built a 38' steel boat from scratch. There was an absolutely tremendous amount of welding done. They have now cruised for over 30 years. There is an episode covering the construction of their boat.

When it comes to steel designs I also like Thomas Colvin, Dudley Dix, Bruce Roberts, and the late George Buehler, whose website seems to be down of late. As softdown mentioned, the YouTube channel Sailing Emerald Steel has a lot of great footage of the experience of a couple who built a Bruce Roberts Spray design on the cheap.

Suzie and Jules break down their perspective on the cost of building versus buying a steel boat in this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Sl8CRaExM

I wish I could forget Colvin's pinky schooner designs because there are much more efficient designs out there, even in steel!

[JacoT]

Thanx guys for all the valid points. To address a few 1 Yes, my first choice is to build on an existing hull/project. But as I live in South Africa, buying a boat abroad is OUT OF THE QUESTION. So yes I am shopping around locally, Alas no luck yet. The time commitment is not an issue as I am what U can call a "Hermit workaholic" And have undertaken much bigger projects before. ( I live for the challenge of building complex things ).
On hull selection, I am skeptical about twin hulls and cats as they don't seem to pick themselves up after a tip-over . As to swing keels, Again something that might break, needs work and extra maintenance. I wish to go as analog and reliable as possible.
As to moving and turning hull . I have access to two 15 tonne Galion cranes and plan to build a truck/dolly stand for hull that can be winched onto a low bed for transport .
Cutting steel. I have build a few CNC machines before plasma, 3d printer (I do castings) etc etc ...
And yes anything sailing related on You Tube is on permanent stream in my workshop
As always, Nothing is set in stone and I am always open to new angles of thought
J