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Old 12-08-2017, 00:42   #31
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Re: Steel hull construction

I use to build steel commercial boats. Make sure you know how to weld w/o distorting the steel. Read up on techniques that keep heat distortions to a minimum and how to heat treat post welding. Also look for a steel supplier that precuts the steel from the designer's plans. Otherwise you have to loft every piece. Building a 50' hull is at least hundreds of hours for 2 people. Having the pieces ready to weld probably saves a fourth of the assembly time. Become a certified welder for cheaper insurance and a better survey.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:43   #32
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Re: Steel hull construction

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Thanx guys for all the valid points. To address a few 1 Yes, my first choice is to build on an existing hull/project. But as I live in South Africa, buying a boat abroad is OUT OF THE QUESTION. So yes I am shopping around locally, Alas no luck yet. The time commitment is not an issue as I am what U can call a "Hermit workaholic" And have undertaken much bigger projects before. ( I live for the challenge of building complex things ).
On hull selection, I am skeptical about twin hulls and cats as they don't seem to pick themselves up after a tip-over . As to swing keels, Again something that might break, needs work and extra maintenance. I wish to go as analog and reliable as possible.
As to moving and turning hull . I have access to two 15 tonne Galion cranes and plan to build a truck/dolly stand for hull that can be winched onto a low bed for transport .
Cutting steel. I have build a few CNC machines before plasma, 3d printer (I do castings) etc etc ...
And yes anything sailing related on You Tube is on permanent stream in my workshop
As always, Nothing is set in stone and I am always open to new angles of thought
J
You are from South Africa, you can try to connect with this guy: https://www.boatdesign.net/members/wynand-n.6159/
He is very experienced on steel boat building and had a website full of information, though it's down now. And he is based in South Africa, I think Dudley Dix spend some time in South Africa as well, I might be wrong but I think he had connection with some shop that can cut pattern for his design in South Africa.
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:08   #33
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Re: Steel hull construction

Your mention of steel boats precipitated a bit of dreamy shopping on Yachtworld. . . . I seem to do a bit of that every day.

Anyway, just as a for-instance, here's a 38-foot Bruce Roberts Spray in Canada for just under US$12,000. It seems to be a sound hull. At that cost, you could afford to have it shipped right to your doorstep and still come out ahead on cash and time.

1990 Bruce Roberts 38 Spray Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:24   #34
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Re: Steel hull construction

I can only dream ,Not before our Gov pulls our economy out of the toilet and the exchange rate from the SA Rand to the Dollar improves ... A LOT
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:31   #35
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Re: Steel hull construction

Hah! I was at the dry dock Thursday afternoon, and met a wonderful couple on a steel sailboat, and they were not only from South Africa, they even built it themselves! Evidently they come by this place every couple years for a scrape and visit, then head off to points we did not precisely discuss. It was an interesting vessel, relatively flat deck, and very clean topsides, no excessive garbage to break feet or toes on, and the thing was a TANK. She was about 25-30 feet and the paint was pristine as new snow (aka, "white" and not crappy). They really did seem to take pride in her, and though I could clearly see it was a custom craft, I have to admit a certain jealousy, because they did a really good job of it from what I could see. It was odd, though, seeing those minor squared off panels, which is really what gave it away. The couple was smiling and we had some good laughs and discussion. One day, I will have to visit that country.

I got called back to my own boat after we talked a bit though, because the oilpan my brother in law was attempting to install on my Yanmar sb-8...well.. did not go to an SB-8. We are still not sure what it fits. Now I have to find another oilpan, or I have to create a plate to convert my SB-8 bolt pattern to...whatever this oilpan is..

Cheers!
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:12   #36
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Re: Steel hull construction

How long have you been looking? My memory seems to recall some fabulous deals on sailboats that wound up in Africa before the owner decided to "cut and run". Of course Africa is a gigantic continent.

I think user boatman61 *may* operate around southern Europe at times. He may know some things....I think he *may* do some professional captain work for boats that are being bought and sold.

Has anybody clad a fiberglass or wood boat in steel...with success?
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Old 12-08-2017, 14:58   #37
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Re: Steel hull construction

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I heard from someone in the business for many years said that he never seen any amateur without prior boatbuilding experience finished a 40' boat.
Just for the record. ..
My father, an amateur without prior boatbuilding experience, completely built a 40' boat. All alone.
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Old 12-08-2017, 17:23   #38
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Re: Steel hull construction

Check out Ted Brewer's website. Many of his designs are in steel and aluminum.
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Old 12-08-2017, 17:59   #39
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Re: Steel hull construction

A...check out Svseeker.com. Big steel oagami home build
B...google "home build steel yacht". Lots of links to be found like Kasten marine

My inner guru speaks, listen.....
IMHO there are 3 types of boat people
1- builders
2- fixer/restorer/repairer
3- sailor
4- ( dock condo types are not really boat people and don't count)

Happiness is achieve by turning inward and understanding which type you truly are. A type 1 can blissfully work for decades. But a 3 who goes the home build route will be very dissatisfied. As would a 1 on a Pacific crossing.

I'm a 2 desperately trying to let my inner 3 emerge.

My internet won't allow me to search for it at the moment but there is some Scandinavian (lady?) who build a Colvin Archer lapstrake ketch out of aluminum. She cut the planks from aluminum sheet on a table saw or some such thing. Then laid up the hull welding each seam inside and out. You can find her on weldingweb.com.
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Old 12-08-2017, 18:26   #40
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Re: Steel hull construction

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Try googling Brent swain origami steel boats
So,
You have decided you don't want the OP to actually ever sail... And live his life on a mud flat up north...😜
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Old 12-08-2017, 18:40   #41
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Re: Steel hull construction

Actually I find merit to Brent's designs.

A major problem with steel is water collecting in the longitudinals, limber holes or not.

Brent's designs, I believe, don't have longitudinals to gather water.

Our Pape has the plate butts welded to solid steel rod, eliminating this problem.

I recently saw a Meta (? French build anyway) where the plates overlapped by a few inches. That also worked to eliminate the problem.
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Old 12-08-2017, 20:38   #42
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Re: Steel hull construction

You would only want to build it yourself if there is no steel boat out there that comes close to what you are looking for or if there is another reason such as you don't mind spending a few years cutting and welding steel plate. There is much more to it after the bare hull is done as well.
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Old 12-08-2017, 21:00   #43
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Re: Steel hull construction

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Actually I find merit to Brent's designs.

A major problem with steel is water collecting in the longitudinals, limber holes or not.

Brent's designs, I believe, don't have longitudinals to gather water.
Brent uses primarily longitudinal framing. In the upper plates ie Lots of longitudinals tied into bulkheads. He recommends sprayfoam insulation to stop water collecting in the framing.

The folded hull certainly seems to be a lot quicker to build than traditional framed hulls, but the hull is a very small part of the whole time/cost equation. To really make the most of his designs I think the whole simple homemade low cost concept needs to be followed rigorously. No point building a simple origami hull and then gold plating it with all sorts of 'yachtie' stuff. Brents book is worth reading, and the origamiboats yahoo group has some good info on the designs.

Any smaller steel boat like this is likely to have a lower righting moment unless weight is aggressively kept out of the rig, cabin and deck.
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Old 12-08-2017, 21:09   #44
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Re: Steel hull construction

You don't leave the inside of a steel hull bare. It is prepped well to remove oils and rust and then sprayed with a few coats of an epoxy barrier coat.

The righting arm (GZ) is determined by the center of gravity and the center of buoyancy. It's not just where the center of gravity is located that determines stability. It is possible to have a lot of both and to have a stable vessel.
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Old 12-08-2017, 21:58   #45
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Re: Steel hull construction

^^ True David regarding the RM. I should have said all things being equal. But a good steel yacht designer will compensate for this by adding beam, ballast/weight or in other ways.

Unfortunately I have sailed on a few overbuilt small steel boats where power to carry sail has been poor. As well as others that have performed very well.
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