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Old 09-10-2003, 19:44   #1
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Lightbulb Sta-Loc vs Swaged cable ends for off shore vessels

Just want to get some opions on the two types of fasteners for shrouds and stays. Which is more reliable under heavy long term stress. Right now mine has 5/16 and 3/8 wires with swaged on ends. and i've been watching that little bit of redness starting to form around the top of the swag. I've shot some WD-40 inthem to help keep the corrosion factor down and have added shroud/turnbuckle covers to help keep the moisture off a bit more.
You can only wire brush so far then the rest is anybodies guess.

I was thinking that if I had Sta-Loc fittings I could at least pull the caps for an occaisonal inspection. I've used the steel version on 1" wire rope for cranes and other rigs but no experience with the smaller SS stuff.
Also I would consider carrying splicing and end fittings and extra wire for at sea repairs, God forbid.

Anyone have lots of experience with the Sta-Loc type fittings?
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Old 10-10-2003, 05:24   #2
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Sta-lok

I rerigged my boat with Sta-Loks and was very happy with them. Testing has shown them stronger than swages, sometimes stronger than the wire.

I consider my boats long-term, and the ability to re-rig by only having to buy wire (and the cheap cones), plus the ability to carry spares aboard in order to replace any shroud is important to me.

Initial cost may be higher (unless you hire someone to swage), but Sta-Loks pay down the road.

They're not difficult to use if you follow directions.
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Old 10-10-2003, 12:18   #3
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Tenknots, thanks for the reply!

The last time I was out on the water. I noticed my leeward shrouds were slack while I was beating into the wind with the genoa. On my 23 footer, it would be no big thing, it's such a light flexible boat. But on a 3/8" wire the load is extreme compared that little boat and a backlash was on my mind the whole time. I guess I'll be buying a tension gage soon just to make sure everything is adjusted properly.
Maybe I'm just being a little over cautious, part of my job is inspecting cranes and hoists and nit-picking goes along with it. Stainless wire has different properties than steel. It can stretch and stretch but the load factor is much less than steel. My concern is, would the wire pull out of the Sta-Loc before the wire parted. I guess I should be taking to our rigging supplier.

"Testing has shown them stronger than swages, sometimes stronger than the wire."

I guess this would depend on who installed them! Are there any special instructions like lubricants, heat or sealers? Thanks again!


"Continually pursuing excellence"..........................._/)
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Old 10-10-2003, 13:57   #4
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As a rigger out sailing . I prefer swage fittings . The wire will break before the fitting fails IF corrosian is controled .do not allow water to enter the fitting . the best method is to fill fitting with a sealer before swaging . Mechanical fittings are great in an emergency and they will hold beyond the strength of the wire if they are installed properly .In my experiance I have seen only 30% installed correctly -that is evenly loading the strands of the wire.
Another problem is covering the Turnbuckle . Stainless needs oxygen to not corrode
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Old 11-10-2003, 03:58   #5
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As "Dolce Vita" indicated, two important factors in maintaining "Swageless" mechanical terminals are:
Sealing against moisture
and
Not preventing air from passivating the stainless

No special tools are required to install Mechanical Swageless Terminals. Slip the body of the terminal over the diameter of the cable. Unlay the outer wires, and fit the cone over the centre core. Re-lay the outer wires onto the head of the fitting. Draw the body up to the head, and screw together. Mechanical Terminals can be re-used, but a new cone must be installed each time.

SWAGELESS TERMINAL INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS (Norseman, Sta-Lok, etc)

1. Measure and cut the wire rope to length.
If using a hacksaw, tape the ends of the wire rope at the mark, and cut rope through tape.

2. Unscrew the end fitting from the body and remove the cone.
Slide the body over the wire rope.

3. Un-lay (unravel) the outer wires from the center strand.
A screwdriver is useful for this.

4. Fit the cone over the center strand with the long taper facing the body.

5. Position the cone on the center strand with 1-1/2 times the rope diameter protrusion. Reform the outer wires around the cone, one at a time.
Ensure that the cone remains in its correct position.

6. Push the blind hole in the fitting over the end of the cable.
Bring the body up the wire rope and hand screw the two pieces together.
If using a left hand lay rope then turn only the end fitting.
If the rope is a right hand lay then turn only the terminal body.

7. Once the two pieces have been screwed together 2 or 3 turns, the terminal can be completely wrench-tightened by turning the end fitting.

DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN, this will not improve the performance of the fitting and may result in damage to the screw threads.
The fitting is sufficiently tight when the cone is fully seated in the taper inside the body. Until this occurs there will be minimal resistance to turning the end fitting.
As soon as the resistance increases the fitting is tight enough and should not be tightened further.

8. Unscrew the end fitting and inspect the internal assembly.
Check to make sure that none of the outer wires have gotten stuck in one of the slots in the cone.
The outer wires should be evenly spaced around the cone.

9. Apply a non-corrosive marine sealant to the blind hole in the end fitting and to the inside of the body.
Screw up the assembly hand tight.
Repeat if necessary until sealant oozes from the body and wipe away excess sealant.

10. Apply the threaded locking adhesive to the screw threads and re-tighten the terminal, per step 7 above.

E. & O. E.
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Old 16-11-2003, 07:39   #6
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One other reason for swageless

I learned while bringing my boat home from the Caribbean that nobody stocks 5/16 wire and fittings. Even if you can get your problem to a chandlery, you wait 10 to 14 days for them to get the parts and assemble the new wire. With swageless, you can store the raw materials and fix it yourself.

I blame the internet and catalogue sales for this - West included. The chandleries that would stock the stuff were forced into the t-shirt business by West, then West cut back their stock to those items they sell every day. "Just park it over there for a week and we'll get what you need". Well that sucks when you are a poor man on a schedule. Swageless provides some needed independence if your wire sizes are abnormal, and you are willing to stock your own spare parts.
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Old 16-11-2003, 13:10   #7
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Thumbs up Thanks for all the input

The reason I asked is I plan a retirement in the S. Pacific, mostly the Philippines. I don't believe the area has a lot of rigging suppliers available especially around the small islands. So I think my best bet would be to have a new set of swaged rigging built and installed before the trip and to carry enough wire and Sta-Loc's to put together a fore/aft stay and a couple of shrouds in case of a failure. The winds can get pretty nasty every spring and fall there and waiting on ordered rig could be too late.
While in the Navy I was stationed aboard a supply ship with miles of wire rope. When we were conreping other ships everyone was involved so they showed up movies on rigging for safety reasons. Most of the rope failures were at fittings or kinks. The Sta-Loc types had more failures than the swaged types. They said, mostly due to the installer or lack of maintenence. With a swag fitting the amount of grip on the individual wires were even, with a sta-loc type some wires would roll or gall during installation. Now this was steel wire. Stainless is a softer material, which galls easily but would crush to a more even grip. So it all comes down to the builder following proper procedures. I'm not sure the average Joe has the experience make up his own without some sort of training. Let alone stress testing as the pros do.


Sy Dolce Vita, Good points on the oxygen. I've noticed more red dust around my swags since I put the covers on the turnbuckles. I think I'll pull them up while in port and keep the WD-40 flowing.

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Old 17-11-2003, 06:05   #8
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Non-corrosive marine sealant

Gord:
RE: "non-corrosive marine sealant" I have heard that not all silicone is the same, and that if it isn't marked marine, it could be troublesome. How sensitive is this issue? How much trouble is a person in when he uses the wrong silicone?

I notice there is also a marine version of "Goop". I assume that Goop shouldn't be used as a sealant. Comment?
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Old 17-11-2003, 08:33   #9
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Non-Corrosive Silicone

Most “General Purpose” Silicone sealants are “Acetoxy” rubbers, that release acetic acid as they cure. This acid attacks many metals, and makes it a poor choice.

Most “Marine” Silicones are “Neutral Curing” (Alkoxy), which release methyl alcohol (sometimes ethyl) as they cure. I always use a NEUTRAL CURING Silicone.

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Old 17-11-2003, 13:07   #10
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sealing swage fittings

Delmarrey:
Get Lannocoat from your chandlery . Heat your swage fitting with a heat gun . Stop . as the fitting and wire cool ,melt the lannocoat into the fitting as you would sweat a solder joint . you will see it drawn in .
WD-40 evaporates thus not leaving any protection . WD stands for WATER DISPLACEMENT . Lannocoat has a waxy feel to it .
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Old 17-11-2003, 13:24   #11
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Thumbs up Good Idea

Michael,

Thanks again!

Hey! while we're on the subject of wires. I have a problem with my genoa sheets chafting on the shrouds when I tack. I've read about wood or plastic tubes put on the shrouds as rollers.

Has anyone tried these and if so what was the downfall if any?
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Old 17-11-2003, 18:33   #12
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Delmarrey:

What kind of boat ?
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Old 17-11-2003, 18:50   #13
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Sorry I just rememberd it's a Chote 40 .If you are getting performance pulling the sail that flat . you might try a snubber sheet run inside the shrouds
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Old 17-11-2003, 21:34   #14
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Chafing

My shrouds are about 16" inside the genoa tracks.
My genoa sheets are 5/8" and are fairly heavy especially when wet (rain) and what's actually happening is when I tack, and the genoa tacks over to the other side, it drags the sheets across the shrouds. Over time they have become fuzzy and worn. I let out as much line on the windward side as I can with out it going in the water but the weight of the line resists and I have to start cranking in on the lee or the sail will fill and then it's time for the 16:1. By then the vessel is heeled over and I'm standing on my head trying to crank in the genoa at 16:1. So in the mean time the autohelm is going nuts trying to figure which way to adjust for the heel and course. If I could only get the sheets to slide/roll free around the shrouds I could have the sails set and cleated before the auto helm gets crazy. This is singlehanded of course. If someone were at the helm they could over tack, forcing the genoa to a reach and then swing back to a closehaul, giving more slack on the leeward sheet.

This is why I've asked if anyone else has used the so called shroud rollers.
Example: Item #162362 http://wmarine.mobular.net/wmarine/5/5/2/index.jsp

Anything can be manufactured, but it doesn't mean it works. But of course, I would make my own.

On my 23'er I don't have this problem. The sheets are like strings flying in the wind.
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Old 18-11-2003, 12:31   #15
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Shroud Rollers

Here's a manufacturers (of Shroud Rollers) list - but you certainly could make your own (at least as a beta test):

American Precision Marine
516-286-8368 . . . Fax: 516-286-8378
1260 Montauk Hwy., E. Patchogue, NY 11772

Bete-Fleming Battens, Inc.
508-758-4996 . . . 888-758-4996 . . . Fax: 508-758-2405
44 Marion Rd., Mattapoisett, MA 02739

Nautical Engineering, Inc. - From the previous West Marine link
248-349-1034 . . . 800-645-7186 . . . Fax: 248-349-3022
700 Doheny Dr., Northville, MI 48167

Ronstan International, Inc.
727-545-1911 . . . Fax: 727-541-6611
7600 Bryan Dairy Rd. N, Ste. F, Largo, FL 33777
e-mail: ronsmelb@ronstan.com.au
website: www.ronstan.com

Wichard, Inc.
860-658-2201 . . . 800-852-7084 . . . Fax: 860-651-8406
507 Hopmeadow St., Simsbury, CT 06070
e-mail: wichard.inc@snet.net
website: www.wichard-usa.com
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