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Old 02-12-2010, 20:12   #16
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I would seriously suggest NOT using "stainless steel" for a counter-top in a boat that is going to be in or used in a salt water environment. SS rusts! Only 316 SS is resistant to rust in a salt water environment. And it needs to be passivated frequently. All the others develop black rust spots where salt crystals accumulate from the air. It doesn't take long before the nice "land home" stainless steel looks like it has the pox.
- - There is a reason why you do not see it in production or other boats used in the oceans. Even stainless steel accessories like soap dispensors; trash cans; toothbrush holders, etc. all develop the "pox" from pin point rust. Even chromed faucets and accessories develop pits and blisters after a year or so in the salt water environment. Plastic or similar materials is the only way to go.
- - If you are only in fresh water, forget the above.
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Old 02-12-2010, 20:15   #17
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Softwood plywood will do little to prevent lighter gauge stainless from showing dings. Most laminate work is done on high density particle board or MDF (medium density fiberboard). This will support the metal or laminate.

Use the heaviest gauge you can and it will hold up a lot better. But because it's metal it shows surface deformations a lot easier than other materials.

Osiris makes some excellent points. SS will show age in a salt air environment.
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Old 02-12-2010, 21:24   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_DeepPlaya View Post
This quote is from OnlineMetals page on T-304, if you wanted to use T-316 it would still apply.

Order Stainless 304 Sheet in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com
"The T-304 #4 finish is the brushed finish you see in most restaurants and professional kitchens.
Here is a great idea: You can use our custom cut feature to design stainless sheet to fit as a wall decoration behind your stove or anywhere in your home or office. We also do this in Copper and Brass. Most customers find that .024" thick material works best for these applications."

Thanks for the info I tried them but to send an entire sheet was too expensive. It was cheaper to go to a supplier locally.


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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
I have a sheet of 10Ga 304 on top of a 3/4 plywood work bench; I have dented the bejesus out of it with little effort.... just saying. I know a galley ain't a workshop, but that cast iron skillet might equal a hammer!

What I have is fine for me in a shop as a ground to TIG weld on, but I wouldn't want it in my boat!

I have a couple of tables from a science lab that work out well but I don't know what gauge they are. They have dents but I call it character. lol


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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
I would seriously suggest NOT using "stainless steel" for a counter-top in a boat that is going to be in or used in a salt water environment. SS rusts! Only 316 SS is resistant to rust in a salt water environment. And it needs to be passivated frequently. All the others develop black rust spots where salt crystals accumulate from the air. It doesn't take long before the nice "land home" stainless steel looks like it has the pox.
- - There is a reason why you do not see it in production or other boats used in the oceans. Even stainless steel accessories like soap dispensors; trash cans; toothbrush holders, etc. all develop the "pox" from pin point rust. Even chromed faucets and accessories develop pits and blisters after a year or so in the salt water environment. Plastic or similar materials is the only way to go.
- - If you are only in fresh water, forget the above.

Thanks I didn't think of that. I am now leaning towards Corian. OK upon edit I have one question about this. Many production boats do come with SS sinks. They are typically made of 304 SS. I haven't had that much problem with my sink. Nothing a little rust remover wouldn't take care of. Why would the counters be different?

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Originally Posted by defjef View Post
Softwood plywood will do little to prevent lighter gauge stainless from showing dings. Most laminate work is done on high density particle board or MDF (medium density fiberboard). This will support the metal or laminate.

Use the heaviest gauge you can and it will hold up a lot better. But because it's metal it shows surface deformations a lot easier than other materials.

Osiris makes some excellent points. SS will show age in a salt air environment.
OK OK solid surface with wood fiddles will be the best.
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Old 02-12-2010, 22:13   #19
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The BEST thing about a SS is for odor removal. Rub your stinky hands/fingers (from garlic, onion, fish) over the SS while running cool water over them. It works. Even Consumer Reports admits it works.
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Old 03-12-2010, 16:52   #20
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I am using ss on splashes and trim in my galley renovate. As for the Countertop, I am laminating a 1/2" piece of Azak sheet over the old. 4'x8' sheet, $100, and u can use the other half somewhere else on the boat. Yes it can dent if u beat it up, mine is small and mostly covered with cutting boards and sink drains.I am a carpenter and have had 4 sheets of this ss in my yard, outside for 11 years, I wiped it off with fantastic and its like the day it was made.You can get the Azak, brand name at any lumberyard, comes 1/4",1/2",3/4" or 1".4x8 or10", also avail in 3/4" or 5/4" nominal widths from by4" to by 12", good stuff... I"ll try to post pics...Red
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Old 05-12-2010, 14:06   #21
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Charlie-
"The problem I am having is getting the material. Nobody local will sell me Corian and shipping it gets real expensive. " That might be a franchise term, or just folks trying to keep their business.
If you bring them a cardboard template and they fab the countertop up for you, it will cost more but there's less work and no special glues or skills needed. Have you tried asking for a quote that way?
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Old 05-12-2010, 14:16   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
I would seriously suggest NOT using "stainless steel" for a counter-top in a boat that is going to be in or used in a salt water environment. SS rusts! Only 316 SS is resistant to rust in a salt water environment. And it needs to be passivated frequently. All the others develop black rust spots where salt crystals accumulate from the air. It doesn't take long before the nice "land home" stainless steel looks like it has the pox.
- - There is a reason why you do not see it in production or other boats used in the oceans. Even stainless steel accessories like soap dispensors; trash cans; toothbrush holders, etc. all develop the "pox" from pin point rust. Even chromed faucets and accessories develop pits and blisters after a year or so in the salt water environment. Plastic or similar materials is the only way to go.
- - If you are only in fresh water, forget the above.
You mention:
There is a reason why you do not see it in production or other boats used in the oceans.

You have not looked at private yachts lately,,, they have been building SS galleys in them for years,,,, Commercial vessels also,,,

You say SS rusts
Were do you get this info,,,,, If properly taken cars of SS will NOT rust,,,, what is most of the sailboat rigging made from that sits out in the environment??????
Even stainless steel accessories like soap dispensors; trash cans; toothbrush holders, etc. all develop the "pox" from pin point rust They are made from CHEAP SS not quality SS

osirissail,,,,,,,,,,,“I think you know not from whence you speak”….

A commercial SS countertop WILL NOT RUST,,,,
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Old 05-12-2010, 14:22   #23
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The BEST thing about a SS is for odor removal. Rub your stinky hands/fingers (from garlic, onion, fish) over the SS while running cool water over them. It works. Even Consumer Reports admits it works.
Old wives tail,,, I know this does not work,,, I am a chef and work with lots of fish and other items
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Old 05-12-2010, 15:49   #24
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Might be worth call around to the contractors who do kitchen remodeling,,, might get good deal on a used countertop
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Old 05-12-2010, 16:05   #25
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When I was making cooking videos I found a small custom shop that built me 3 countertops for next to nothing,,, all custom,,,,, about 500 dollars for all 3,,,, they worked out of a warehouse, did great work,,, i was driving around one weekend and saw them,,,they did very little advertising,,, if the door was not opened i would never have seen them,, 3 days later had the countertops,,the photo only shows 2 of them,,,, under the blue mixer,
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Old 05-12-2010, 18:00   #26
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Some stainless does rust. But "all" stainless is machined and worked with carbon steel tools, which always leave tiny specks of carbon steel in the surface of the stainless, and then if those specs are not passivated, i.e. burned out with an acid dip session, they will rust and the stainless will still have bits of rust embedded in it, making it appear that the stainless is rusting.

Most stainless won't rust in normal use--but passivating used to be an extra cost with caustic acid. The EPA now discourages dumping the used acid and passivating is still an extra cost step--but less effective, too. If a small shop does your build-up or does it on-site, it isn't going to be passivated at all.

So, no stainless steel at all is the best way to make sure it doesn't rust. But it doesn't all HAVE TO rust, if properly chosen (alloy) and fabricated (passivated) and maintained.

I just don't think I'd care for butcher-shop aesthetics in the galley.<G>
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Old 06-12-2010, 00:58   #27
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Stainless steels

Maybe this is a bit of thread drift, but it's normally a good idea to understand a material if one is going to use it. I've appreciated the replies about using s/s for a counter top from different angles... maybe yet another perspective might be useful. I'm an architectural blacksmith (make railings, gates, chandeliers, &c) and am fascinated by ferrous metallurgy. So, here goes my take on s/s:

Stainless steel is 'stainless' because of the chromium (Cr) in it, at least 11%, but generally around 18%. One group of stainless steels, the 300 series, also has nickel (Ni) in the mix. Sometimes one sees such s/s as '18/8'. The 400 series has no Ni and is magnetic. 300 series s/s is not magnetic unless cold worked or given a cryogenic bath, and are generally the most corrosion resistant of the stainless steels.

S/s suffers carbide precipitation when the temperature is in the 800-1400 F degree range. This effect forms preferentially at the grain boundaries and gives intergranular corrosion'. Essentially this diminishes the 'stainless' nature of s/s. 'Stainless' should really be 'stains less'.

One can limit carbide precipitation by a few means: reduce the carbon in the metal (this is the L in the 304L, 316L, &c; meaning Low carbon, especially for welding use). Hey, if it aint IN the mix it can't come OUT of the mix. One can add more Cr to the mix (as in 309). One can add an element that has a greater affinity to carbon than the Cr, say Titanium, making a 'stabilised' steel. To tell you the truth, I've never seen such a steel under my hands. Or, one can simply ignore the problem, as it only happens in welding or other elevated thermal environment. In welding, keep the heat input low and quench if a small weldment.

As to 316 s/s; 316 has Molybdenum (Mo) in it, which both increases corrosion resistance, especially to chloride ion attack, and increases creep resistance... just the thing for shackles (or?) in a marine application.

I've never had any problem at all with 304 in the sink on my vessel, but then a skosh of scouring powder and a touch of scotchbrite won't allow room for the problem. There IS a quantity of dubious s/s around. Both Cr and Ni are expensive and if a manufacturer can cut this corner and still have things look good in the showroom...

Considering the question of what to use as a counter top... what you are really asking is 'what material is inert in a marine environment and impervious to the level of heat found in a cooking pan?' Oh, and looks good. Have you considered, he says trying to think beyond the frame, stone of any description (thin granite tiles [there are some really cool granites around, ask your stone source about Bahia Azul... but don't ask about the price], or heaven forbid, some miracle cement product - maybe with a bit of coloring to it) or even a sheet of high temperature silicone (it wouldn't let the pans slip around as easily as s/s!)?

Maybe the silicone is not as goofy as it sounds; I know people who have Corian and find even in S California that they have to put mats between counter and plate or else the heat gets sucked out of the food. I am a metal enthusiast and will always go that way if allowed to, but there must be a range of materials that would suit the needs, no?

Quartering winds to you.
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:26   #28
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Old wives tail,,, I know this does not work,,, I am a chef and work with lots of fish and other items
That's your problem - you work with it for an extended period of time. In order for this to work, you must do the stainless trick right away - once it absorbs into your skin, it's too late. And, yes, it DOES work - especially for garlic and onions. We've done many tests on it with many different people (I'm a molecular biologist by education - I know how to set up a test).
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Old 06-12-2010, 11:13   #29
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... (I'm a molecular biologist by education - I know how to set up a test).
Not like this, I suppose.
Does a Bit of Steel Get Rid of That Garlic Smell? : NPR
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Old 06-12-2010, 13:30   #30
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That's your problem - you work with it for an extended period of time. In order for this to work, you must do the stainless trick right away - once it absorbs into your skin, it's too late. And, yes, it DOES work - especially for garlic and onions. We've done many tests on it with many different people (I'm a molecular biologist by education - I know how to set up a test).
If you have any test results you could send me,, I would be interested in reading them,,,chefken@chefken.com

there is another one,, which is better a wooden cutting board or a plastic cutting board???

the answer will surprise most people,, but it also depends on which report you believe and which scientific party did the test
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