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Old 09-12-2015, 04:20   #31
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

OK so we're jumping on the bandwagon. We need new burner caps too.

We have been in touch with Force 10 because we were having what they diagnosed as a problem with the valve in the burner caps. Problem is they don't make replacement parts for old Force 10 stoves.

The blogs were good and we may have to go that way.

Coastalexplorer, we messaged you. Thing is we don't need just the cap but the whole burner mechanism with the valve too.

Manny
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Old 09-12-2015, 04:51   #32
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

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used to buy force from Fisheries Supply Seattle, maybe they may know
Thanks, I emailed them right after you posted this, and got a reply late yesterday my time. Short answer is no, they don't have any and don't know where to get them. either.

I wrote emails to several other places, but haven't gotten replies. Fisheries Supply was good about following up.

I think there's a market out there for just the burner caps. In our case, before we bought it the boat had sat for about six years with a fresh water drip in a window above the stove. That top tray on the stove will hold a puddle for quite a while. The cast iron bits just rusted away to pieces. Replacing the top burners with the stainless option worked for us, but it was fairly expensive. I think most people would notice the cap going and replace it before it got as bad as ours was. Once the caps were gone, in our case, the rust and crud fell down into the burner assemblies and just continued on with that Rust-Never-Sleeps attitude it has.
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:08   #33
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

I just found another thread suggesting Dickenson's. They don't deal with stoves but make heaters that apparently carry the same size caps. We are going to contact them and see what happens.

Robyn
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Old 10-12-2015, 05:44   #34
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

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I just found another thread suggesting Dickenson's. They don't deal with stoves but make heaters that apparently carry the same size caps. We are going to contact them and see what happens.

Robyn
Took a quick look at their site, and they do make stoves, and heaters. Both propane and diesel. I didn't see any photos of the propane burners, but am hoping you find they make something compatible. Thanks for looking into it.
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Old 10-12-2015, 13:00   #35
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

Well got a quick answer from Dickensons.
"Sadly, no. We use to have the caps that we used on our Cozy Cabin heaters but that part was discontinued due to not being available anymore from the supplier."

So we are all back to square one on this.

Robyn
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Old 11-12-2015, 14:08   #36
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

Good day to you all?

When I offered to re-manufacture Force 10 stove caps it was not with a view to make money off of you all: Rather a thought to try to be nice and helpful.

However for me to help you would require a sufficient number of people to help me. Because Force 10 would require me to have several million dollars worth of limited liability insurance for me to sell to them. I am semi retired so I am not doing that. Why that is important to them over two sizes of small Iron castings is definitely not clear to me?

I approached this by collecting my excellent condition stove caps from my boat to use as samples.

I drove to a machine shop that I once worked at where I made Boeing aircraft parts and spoke with the owner. Steve's initial response was "there's not money to be made with this one" However He eventually said if I could get the foundry to cast them He would machine a minimum order of 25 pieces of each size on his CNC machines. (computer numerical control)at a cost of $2,250.

Then there is the fact that the originals were enameled, I have been told that no company in Canada does this for environmental reasons. However I had the new exhaust riser for my Volvo ceramic coated to stop it from rusting.
Doug said he would coat 25 X 4" diameter and 25 X 2" diameter for $ 300.

Force !0 have confirmed the the Sourdillion pattern plate was destroyed years ago; So now we need a new one which I would have to make. Now I did send that photograph of a burner cap to Eric at the foundry, and I have not heard back with an estimate of what he would charge. However perhaps to push for this would be a hypothetical question?

Because here is my essential point: To do this will require an outlay of cash coupled with many miles of driving around. If everyone is more interested in searching for alternative sources and a really cheap deal. I can not afford to make these and get stuck with the stock stored and unsold.

Would you do a deal like this without any purchase orders?:
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Old 11-12-2015, 15:58   #37
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

Nope. Too much risk, too little return. Your costs per unit so far are running, what, $ 102 ea. plus you have to add a whole bunch of your time, machining a pattern for the foundry, and enough money to make it worth while. So I'm guessing you'd have to sell them for something like $200 each. People like me will just buy a totally different, new burner for that, and install it.

The way it looks is that you need to be able to spread those costs over a lot more pieces. Did Force 10 give you any idea if they see requests for these? Of course they'd MUCH rather sell new stoves. It's to their advantage if people cannot get parts for the old ones.

The other potentials that come to mind are their distributors. Defender? West Marine? If it were me I'd do a lot more market research and try to estimate the size of the potential world wide market. Do you want to get into business?

I guess it's possible you could find people to buy 25 of them, but 50 would be better. That's not a huge number, might be able to do that with some more "advertising". Could put them on eBay with a long delivery? Which would shorten up once in production.

There have to be many of those stoves out there, but impossible to judge the demand based upon return from one online forum. There are some other online forums to check in with. That's pretty easy market research.
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:16   #38
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

I write to respond to the last post...Obviously without the foundry tooling requirement and casting price the end cost of a 2" or 4" cap is difficult to determine. While at the machine shop Steve and I were speculating more in the $50 range for the 2" and $60 for the four inch. this would compare with Force 10 retro fit burners at $135. when last sold 17 years ago these caps were priced at about $35.

Whilst Pattern making is the most exact and precise of all woodworking trades. Where tales of old were told of adjusting the size of a casting with one more coat of varnish. The facts are that with some small reproduced antiques; where the dimensions are not so critical. There are methods fast and dirty to take some short cuts off of an original piece. The contraction value for Cast Iron is .010 thousandths per inch so in the case of these caps the expected error on diameter could be .020 and .040 respectively. Now even at that there are ways around it.

In the case of a bronze hub nut for a 1871 ships wheel wanted by a museum. The original casting was cooled in the ice box of the refrigerator. and bees wax was melted on the stove. By dipping as one would a candle; an even additional coat was added. From which a plaster of Paris mold could carefully be made. Out of such a mold additional plastic models to be used as patterns can be made in pattern casting material. If only one loose pattern is required polyester body filler could be used.

Sixty years ago we had to make our own pattern varnish with shellac flakes dissolved in wood alcohol soaked overnight. colored with tempera paint powders then strained though a cloth. In these modern times times pattern paint is obtained from John Burn and Co of England. and in the USA Kindt-Collins, Or Freeman manufacturing $ supply both Located in Ohio.

Sincerely Brian.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:31   #39
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

I missed that your costs are in fact for 50 pieces. Still, you're showing your cost per piece still to be $51 average and you have yet to figure tooling and foundry costs. How can you possibly sell something for less than your costs to make it? Even if you're willing to donate all your time, mileage, etc?
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:17   #40
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

For Force 10 parts as well as heaters refrigeration etc. try Sure Marine in Seattle Wa.
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:50   #41
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

Nice site for "post 2010" stoves. The burner caps are for stainless steel burners.

No help to me, but nice site.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:27   #42
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

This is of no help to you guys but relevant to keeping old stoves going.

One of the nice things about Kero stoves is the parts seem interchangeable over many decades and I've found replacement sources for all of it. I'm sure it helps that Taylor still sells new models, although very expensive. They do appear to last forever.
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Old 12-12-2015, 12:32   #43
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

coastalexplorer, this obviously would not be worth your time or effort. I can see what is involved with the process and do understand how the costs would add up, but $50 or $60 dollars for each burner cap is over our budget.

It was a really nice gesture to offer though

Robyn
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Old 13-12-2015, 18:14   #44
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

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For Force 10 parts as well as heaters refrigeration etc. try Sure Marine in Seattle Wa.
Bingo. I emailed them that day, and Todd got back to me over the weekend. Very knowledgeable and with a good selection of parts for a lot of appliances. Including a cap for my oven!! Looks like a cast copy of the discontinued French foundry ones. Thirty bucks.

I'm sure they have the stove top caps the rest of you are looking for, too.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:15   #45
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Re: Source for old Force 10 Oven burner cap

Woohoo!

We will email them too. Thanks for sharing that information.

Robyn
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