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Old 16-02-2016, 03:50   #31
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pirate Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

I'm not a fan of white grp decks.. mind.. I'm not crazy about teak one's either.. they're not as non-slip as is claimed.
This is what I do with plastic boats, don't like the glare of white and I prefer a sand colour.. just paint neat non-slip area's.. looks really good if done properly and.. cheap..
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Old 16-02-2016, 12:47   #32
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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I'm not a fan of white grp decks.. mind.. I'm not crazy about teak one's either.. they're not as non-slip as is claimed.
This is what I do with plastic boats, don't like the glare of white and I prefer a sand colour.. just paint neat non-slip area's.. looks really good if done properly and.. cheap..
Plus 1

Had light grey non-skid on the last boat, was pretty hot to walk on. Spent a bazillion $ and way to many hrs trying to save a planked wood deck. Never again. Painted non-skid Sand-tone color been very happy so far.

A traditional wood deck on a traditional wood boat fits, but is still very maint intensive and will always leak. A fuax wood deck or faux wood overlayment is 100% asthetics for the owner potential buyer etc and a personal taste choice, like black hull paint...... There is no other reason to do it.
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Old 16-02-2016, 13:56   #33
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

David B,

The shot of your boat's deck looks great. I'm not clear if that photo came after the cleaner or after the cleaner, Semco and sealer. The reason I ask is that one year I used Semco on a teak cap rail and after a very short time, it turned a bilious semi-orange that was dreadful. Not keen on repeating that one. Two days to sand it all off.

So if that photo was taken after just using the cleaner, what was it, please? It looks awesome.

Thanks.
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Old 16-02-2016, 15:01   #34
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I'm not a fan of white grp decks.. mind.. I'm not crazy about teak one's either.. they're not as non-slip as is claimed.
This is what I do with plastic boats, don't like the glare of white and I prefer a sand colour.. just paint neat non-slip area's.. looks really good if done properly and.. cheap..
Agree with your suggestion. If ours did not come with teak, that's what we would have done. with the areas masked off neatly, contrasting textured areas can look really good. Still like our teak - now, and definitely a classier look in our view, but I also admire well done, and well kept coloured decks. Easier to maintain too
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Old 16-02-2016, 15:05   #35
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by Cruisingscotts View Post
Plus 1

A fuax wood deck or faux wood overlayment is 100% asthetics for the owner potential buyer etc and a personal taste choice, like black hull paint...... There is no other reason to do it.
Can't argue with that - same goes for a teak overlay, but done well, and maintained, they look pretty special.
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Old 16-02-2016, 15:19   #36
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pirate Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
Agree with your suggestion. If ours did not come with teak, that's what we would have done. with the areas masked off neatly, contrasting textured areas can look really good. Still like our teak - now, and definitely a classier look in our view, but I also admire well done, and well kept coloured decks. Easier to maintain too
I can understand that.. I was speaking from the viewpoint of someone without the bucks on an older boat maybe..
I've seen some bloody awful artificial decks in my travels on a variety of boats.. admittedly most were DIY add on's..
Lets just say it came from one of the 500/mth crowd..
Good hunting for 'The' perfect deck..
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Old 16-02-2016, 17:15   #37
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by Moody46CC View Post
David B,

The shot of your boat's deck looks great. I'm not clear if that photo came after the cleaner or after the cleaner, Semco and sealer. The reason I ask is that one year I used Semco on a teak cap rail and after a very short time, it turned a bilious semi-orange that was dreadful. Not keen on repeating that one. Two days to sand it all off.

So if that photo was taken after just using the cleaner, what was it, please? It looks awesome.

Thanks.
Full history:
2011 - boat waiting for us to find (it was a virtually completed, cancelled order).
2012 - unwrapped and exposed for the first time. We just didn't have time to treat the decks in the first year, but did do the cockpit etc with a product that was recommened to us at the local chandlery.
2013 - cockpit that we treated with the other product, totally grey, with just remnants of the other brand sealer we used. Waste of time and money. Decks grey, but not as bad as cockpit, where it was black in places, proving to us, you are better off with nothing, than something inferior.

The Semco cleaner was used (and remnants of the other stuff sanded off), then two coats of sealer two days later, mid May (in the Med).
A single coat applied mid July, then left to the elements in North Africa until the new cover was made and put on in November
2014 - early June, decks washed and a single coat put on, with another mid July. Covers replaced end of July
2015 - early May, decks washed and a single coat put on (that picture was taken the morning after). Cover went back on mid July, with the decks not needing another coat (looking the same as that photo).
2016 - we will be back late May, and I will try to remember to photograph the day after we wash the decks. Will probably put another coat on sometime this year.

From the above, our conclusion is that after you have a good base sealing on the teak, only a coat a year is needed if you cover during the winter season. The year after the first work, we were sealing beginning and end of our season. Now, it is just once a season, or perhaps even every second season. Remember though, that we put a winter cover on. Without that, I think we would be putting two coats a season on.

As to your experience, the only orange teak I have seen was with another sealer - probably the most commonly available in the chanderlies. Quite orange, and in fact in Malta we had a guy come up to us to ask what we were using, as he was using the other product and showed us why he was not happy - it was indeed very orange.
There are different tints in Semco, but (I have a sample tin of them all), none that I have found give an orange colour. The one we are using is 'Natural', however once you have the initial base sealing sorted, I suggest going for 'Cleartone', as a maintenance coat, as it has far less pigment, and therefore the black caulking is not affected as much. I still have a fair amount of 'Natural' on board, but when we need to replenish, will give the 'Cleartone' a go for that reason.

With your experience, the Semco cleaner is basically sodium hydroxide, and is supposed to remove old sealer, so that you don't have to sand. I suspect in a few years time, we will want to strip back with the cleaner and start again - probably at the time we have a bit of caulking touch up to do.

I have posted some more images:
The first is the cleaning and initial sealing in early May 2013. Zoom in, and you can see the Semco cleaner and neutralised deck, two days after the process, then the sealer being applied. Also at the feet of the guy standing, is the small cutting-in pad I mentioned, and the larger decking oil applicator (yet to be used there).

The second image is a close-up of our transom step. This is the area that gets hammered, and has an extra two coats on it. You can see the colouring of the black caulking, and why I am thinking the 'Cleartone' is the way to go after you have the initial base sealing done (and yes, I should have wiped the edge of that stainless fitting ).

The third image is from late June 2012. You can see the new, untouched decks are already starting to show signs of greying. They were quite grey when we returned in May 2013.

Some prefer naturally greyed teak, and I can understand that, but with all that weathering, and the ridiculously thin veneer of teak (and these days often not teak) that the production builders use these days, it is not going to last as long as a deck that is sealed and kept covered when not in use.

As another contributor notes earlier on in this thread, these days the only reason for teak or teak alternatives is aesthetics, so therefore one needs to maintain those aesthetic features. Our policy is to keep things as new as possible for as long as possible, in the fear that if we let things slip, that is the beginning of the end. Another product we love is Lion Protect Gelcoat Sealer - easy to apply, but lasts at least a full season (in my experience, fully exposed - no-cover areas are good for two years).

I hope all that helps.

David
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Old 16-02-2016, 17:21   #38
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

Quote:
Am I the only one who thinks that the teak look and feel is worth the money?
No, you're not the only one! Lovely teak decks are well worthwhile. I don't know cork, but I have doubts about the synthetic teaks. Way Hot, even the light ones, and they don't take long to look old.
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Old 19-03-2016, 22:44   #39
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
Full history:
2011 - boat waiting for us to find (it was a virtually completed, cancelled order).
2012 - unwrapped and exposed for the first time. We just didn't have time to treat the decks in the first year, but did do the cockpit etc with a product that was recommened to us at the local chandlery.
2013 - cockpit that we treated with the other product, totally grey, with just remnants of the other brand sealer we used. Waste of time and money. Decks grey, but not as bad as cockpit, where it was black in places, proving to us, you are better off with nothing, than something inferior.

The Semco cleaner was used (and remnants of the other stuff sanded off), then two coats of sealer two days later, mid May (in the Med).
A single coat applied mid July, then left to the elements in North Africa until the new cover was made and put on in November
2014 - early June, decks washed and a single coat put on, with another mid July. Covers replaced end of July
2015 - early May, decks washed and a single coat put on (that picture was taken the morning after). Cover went back on mid July, with the decks not needing another coat (looking the same as that photo).
2016 - we will be back late May, and I will try to remember to photograph the day after we wash the decks. Will probably put another coat on sometime this year.

From the above, our conclusion is that after you have a good base sealing on the teak, only a coat a year is needed if you cover during the winter season. The year after the first work, we were sealing beginning and end of our season. Now, it is just once a season, or perhaps even every second season. Remember though, that we put a winter cover on. Without that, I think we would be putting two coats a season on.

As to your experience, the only orange teak I have seen was with another sealer - probably the most commonly available in the chanderlies. Quite orange, and in fact in Malta we had a guy come up to us to ask what we were using, as he was using the other product and showed us why he was not happy - it was indeed very orange.
There are different tints in Semco, but (I have a sample tin of them all), none that I have found give an orange colour. The one we are using is 'Natural', however once you have the initial base sealing sorted, I suggest going for 'Cleartone', as a maintenance coat, as it has far less pigment, and therefore the black caulking is not affected as much. I still have a fair amount of 'Natural' on board, but when we need to replenish, will give the 'Cleartone' a go for that reason.

With your experience, the Semco cleaner is basically sodium hydroxide, and is supposed to remove old sealer, so that you don't have to sand. I suspect in a few years time, we will want to strip back with the cleaner and start again - probably at the time we have a bit of caulking touch up to do.

I have posted some more images:
The first is the cleaning and initial sealing in early May 2013. Zoom in, and you can see the Semco cleaner and neutralised deck, two days after the process, then the sealer being applied. Also at the feet of the guy standing, is the small cutting-in pad I mentioned, and the larger decking oil applicator (yet to be used there).

The second image is a close-up of our transom step. This is the area that gets hammered, and has an extra two coats on it. You can see the colouring of the black caulking, and why I am thinking the 'Cleartone' is the way to go after you have the initial base sealing done (and yes, I should have wiped the edge of that stainless fitting ).

The third image is from late June 2012. You can see the new, untouched decks are already starting to show signs of greying. They were quite grey when we returned in May 2013.

Some prefer naturally greyed teak, and I can understand that, but with all that weathering, and the ridiculously thin veneer of teak (and these days often not teak) that the production builders use these days, it is not going to last as long as a deck that is sealed and kept covered when not in use.

As another contributor notes earlier on in this thread, these days the only reason for teak or teak alternatives is aesthetics, so therefore one needs to maintain those aesthetic features. Our policy is to keep things as new as possible for as long as possible, in the fear that if we let things slip, that is the beginning of the end. Another product we love is Lion Protect Gelcoat Sealer - easy to apply, but lasts at least a full season (in my experience, fully exposed - no-cover areas are good for two years).

I hope all that helps.

David
Hey, I'm finishing up redoing my decks and was quite caught by your experience.. I believe I'll try to go your route as well.

Is this the stuff?

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp...300&id=1744369

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...478&id=1744308

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
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Old 20-03-2016, 17:21   #40
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
Hey, I'm finishing up redoing my decks and was quite caught by your experience.. I believe I'll try to go your route as well.

Is this the stuff?

SEMCO Teak Cleaner

SEMCO Teak Sealer

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
That's the stuff alright. I suggest you go for the Natural and/or the Clear. Natural has a fair bit of 'freshly sanded teak' coloured pigment in it to shield against the weather, but it does colour the black caulking somewhat (not a lot at first, but it does build up). The Natural, is essentially the same colour, but just a fair bit less.
You may want to buy a small can of each and play around with it first in the cockpit area or somewhere else you have only a small amount of teak. Natural will not last as long, but colours the caulking less. When we have used up all our stock (still a few litres in the locker), we may well change over to Natural, but that is at least 2019. Once it is sealed, you really don't use much at all in the maintenance coats each season.

It would be good to see some before, during and after photos when you are ready.

Have fun doing it,

David
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Old 21-03-2016, 05:57   #41
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
That's the stuff alright. I suggest you go for the Natural and/or the Clear. Natural has a fair bit of 'freshly sanded teak' coloured pigment in it to shield against the weather, but it does colour the black caulking somewhat (not a lot at first, but it does build up). The Natural, is essentially the same colour, but just a fair bit less.
You may want to buy a small can of each and play around with it first in the cockpit area or somewhere else you have only a small amount of teak. Natural will not last as long, but colours the caulking less. When we have used up all our stock (still a few litres in the locker), we may well change over to Natural, but that is at least 2019. Once it is sealed, you really don't use much at all in the maintenance coats each season.

It would be good to see some before, during and after photos when you are ready.

Have fun doing it,

David
Thanks, I'll look into it soon. One question, we have recaulked our seams and since that we have sanded and cleaned the decks with TSP and bleach solution. The decks look pretty fresh, would you think I would need to get the cleaner or just the sealer?

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Old 21-03-2016, 17:28   #42
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
Thanks, I'll look into it soon. One question, we have recaulked our seams and since that we have sanded and cleaned the decks with TSP and bleach solution. The decks look pretty fresh, would you think I would need to get the cleaner or just the sealer?

See more @ redemptiverepair.com
I don't know what TSP is, but if your decks look like clean new teak then I probably would not use the cleaner or brightener.

Having said that, in our case coming back in the second year to grey decks, we of course needed to clean them before applying the Semco sealer.

The cleaning process was interesting (and if you didn't have faith in the product, could be a little stressful). You know when you have brand new teak, and you get some rain on it, and you get runs down the side - effectively tannin stains? Well, the cleaner produced a similar effect - a lot of tannin-coloured water running around the deck during the cleaning process. At the end of that, the decks looked clean - very clean. Perhaps that is where you are now with your TSP and bleach cleaning. If so, read on.

We then applied the brightener. My understanding is that the cleaner is a sodium hydroxide solution with other surfactants added. It states on the bottle that it is 'harsh' on the wood, and it is. Left on for any time, it will wash out the pithy parts of the timber and give you 'tramlines' - the grooving you see on pressure-washed and aged decks (just another reason to seal teak decks - whether or not you use a cleaner, every time you wash your decks, you wash a little bit more over the side).

So we had really clean decks, but were applying the brightener (acid-based) to neutralise the cleaner, thinking in our case, that was about all that we would achieve as the teak was not really aged, being only 12 months in the weather.

Well, we were in for a shock - that brightener really transformed the timber - it looked amazing wet, and in the morning, still looked amazing dry.

If you think your teak looks like new as far as colour is concerned, then go no further. But if you think you have washed/bleached out some of the colour, you may want to try the brightener at least, but frankly if you were going to do that, I would go the extra mile and give the decks a quick going over with the cleaner prior to using the brightener.

Interesting note - last season I had a couple of areas where lines securing the winter cover had rubbed on the teak toe-rail. I gave the areas a quick sand to clean up, then tried the brightener by itself. Essentially it had no effect (still looked a little pale). It seems the two work together.

I wish I could be more helpful, and if I was there, you would be welcome to try a bit of mine to see. At least the cleaner and brightener is not expensive - just a bit of time to do, and then let dry for a couple of days.

I hope that is of some help.

David
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Old 21-03-2016, 17:44   #43
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken View Post
No, you're not the only one! Lovely teak decks are well worthwhile. I don't know cork, but I have doubts about the synthetic teaks. Way Hot, even the light ones, and they don't take long to look old.
A few years ago we were coming into our local marina, and one of the resident (retired) houseboat owners was busy that Sunday morning, sanding and painting the aft railing of his house boat. I called out: "There's always something to do isn't there". The response I got back has stayed with me:
"Yes, and that's a good thing too"
He's right - we need to keep ourselves busy, and the little bit of 'busy' to keep teak decks looking spectacular is in my view well worthwhile.
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Old 21-03-2016, 23:31   #44
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

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Originally Posted by David B View Post
I don't know what TSP is, but if your decks look like clean new teak then I probably would not use the cleaner or brightener.

Having said that, in our case coming back in the second year to grey decks, we of course needed to clean them before applying the Semco sealer.

The cleaning process was interesting (and if you didn't have faith in the product, could be a little stressful). You know when you have brand new teak, and you get some rain on it, and you get runs down the side - effectively tannin stains? Well, the cleaner produced a similar effect - a lot of tannin-coloured water running around the deck during the cleaning process. At the end of that, the decks looked clean - very clean. Perhaps that is where you are now with your TSP and bleach cleaning. If so, read on.

We then applied the brightener. My understanding is that the cleaner is a sodium hydroxide solution with other surfactants added. It states on the bottle that it is 'harsh' on the wood, and it is. Left on for any time, it will wash out the pithy parts of the timber and give you 'tramlines' - the grooving you see on pressure-washed and aged decks (just another reason to seal teak decks - whether or not you use a cleaner, every time you wash your decks, you wash a little bit more over the side).

So we had really clean decks, but were applying the brightener (acid-based) to neutralise the cleaner, thinking in our case, that was about all that we would achieve as the teak was not really aged, being only 12 months in the weather.

Well, we were in for a shock - that brightener really transformed the timber - it looked amazing wet, and in the morning, still looked amazing dry.

If you think your teak looks like new as far as colour is concerned, then go no further. But if you think you have washed/bleached out some of the colour, you may want to try the brightener at least, but frankly if you were going to do that, I would go the extra mile and give the decks a quick going over with the cleaner prior to using the brightener.

Interesting note - last season I had a couple of areas where lines securing the winter cover had rubbed on the teak toe-rail. I gave the areas a quick sand to clean up, then tried the brightener by itself. Essentially it had no effect (still looked a little pale). It seems the two work together.

I wish I could be more helpful, and if I was there, you would be welcome to try a bit of mine to see. At least the cleaner and brightener is not expensive - just a bit of time to do, and then let dry for a couple of days.

I hope that is of some help.

David
Thanks David, that was very helpful.. TSP is trisodium phosphate cleaner. You can pick it up at hardware stores. Teak Deck Systems recommend it on their instructions if I remember correctly. Anyways it's what we used to get like new appearance of the wood. I think I may just get the sealer in natural like you suggested.

Here are our decks after the cleaning and sanding and caulking and the other after sanding the caulking back smooth and a light washing to get dust off.



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Old 21-03-2016, 23:35   #45
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Re: So I think i'm going to go a with Synthetic teak deck

Yes, it's the white'ish areas on the teak in first photo that the brightener transforms back to fresh teak look.


TSP - thanks - learn something every day.
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