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Old 19-08-2015, 14:48   #16
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Thanks. I'll get 2 and keep one tucked away just in case. Will the 20 gal compressor keep up with it, or do you think I should go bigger?


You can't go too big. Wide open, that thing will pull 9 CFM. You probably can't find a 30 gal that puts out more than 4-5, unless you go gas powered, which is expensive and not recommended. But a 30 gal will push it for 15 min or so, then a few minutes of rest to refill the tank, especially if you turn it down a bit. Rest the compressor every few hours too, or you'll burn it up. This is why an 8" electric soft pad sander is appealing. I'd suggest you use both, staying well away from edges and corners with the soft pad, and finishing up with the RO sander. Start with 40 or 60 grit to remove gel. 60 will be easier to sand out if you feel it is aggressive enough at removal. I'd just sand it all out to 80 before heavily gelcoat priming.
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Old 19-08-2015, 16:50   #17
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

I found this at my local Sears. That's as big of a tank as I want and can carry down. Specs say it will flow 6.8@40 and 5.1@90, so hopefully it can keep up for 15min like Minaret says. As for the RO sander, I think I am going with this Bosch. Maybe I'll get the Bosch as a main and one of these as backup. The Bosch seems to have good reviews and a 1 year no question asked warranty. Hopefully I don't burn it up!

Minaret, what would be the big difference between electric RO sanders and this IR sander that's air driven? Driving a honda vs ferrari? I'll still go with the electric Bosch though, just so I can rest the compressor like you say. Sorry for all the tool talk, but A: It seems like getting all this gelcoat off properly and as fair as possible is just as important as laying the new stuff down. In the end it's grunt work and will be fine, but I'd like to be outfitted with the right tools to make the job go well. And B: I'd like to purchase the tools soon so that I can worry about the other million things that need to happen.

I'll be calculating the area for quantities of gel and paint soon, and will throw my numbers up to see if I am close to the mark. Can anyone recommend a supplier on the West Coast with decent prices? I've done some searches and found a few, but any experience first-hand would be great. I am in SF, but will be passing through LA as well (and Arizona), so I can pick it up on my way south. I'll wait to buy materials until last minute to get the freshest stuff possible.

Thanks in advance again, especially to Minaret!!! But please, if anyone else has done something like this with pearls gained from experience, please chime in too

Cheers!
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Old 19-08-2015, 17:38   #18
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

If you go the air tool route you will need to deal with all the water that will be in the compressed air. It's one thing to have dry air for tools and a much harder thing for painting. You should probably get the best separator you can afford. It is very frustrating to have water drops come out of your spray gun.
One of the problems with small compressors is after the filters, hoses, regulators and cheap spray guns you don't have enough air volume.
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Old 19-08-2015, 18:40   #19
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Gel coat when sprayed into mold should only be a few mm thick, I seem to recall 10-15 mm. This looks like it was applied much thicker than that probably double.
Gelcoat this thick? I assume a decimal point was omitted ie 1.0 to 1.5 mm?

I concur with with Minaret's advice, however I have done such work a few times, and the emphasis in the previous sentence is on "work". I can't remember what spray nozzles I used, I experimented with that. The final result all depends how much 'work' you put into it. My results were never perfect, I blamed the spraynozzles, temperature or gelcoat itself, not my lack of experience.
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Old 20-08-2015, 00:45   #20
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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I concur with with Minaret's advice, however I have done such work a few times, and the emphasis in the previous sentence is on "work". I can't remember what spray nozzles I used, I experimented with that. The final result all depends how much 'work' you put into it. My results were never perfect, I blamed the spraynozzles, temperature or gelcoat itself, not my lack of experience.
Oh, no doubt it's going to be a ton of work. Trust me, I know. I fitted out a 26ft Pearson that was pretty bare bones to a little cruiser over a year's time. I had coring issues that I tackled + painted the entire boat: Bottom paint, hull, and decks. I cursed the living daylights out of the Bubonic-4, rebuilt the exhaust system, and re-rigged the whole thing myself. Started out my trip in December with 16ft seas, 20 knots on the stern quarter, and about 50 hours of actual sailing time. Books can take you far, but at some point you've got to just go. I even managed a whale strike off of Los Frailes (that was fun?!) In all, I sailed 4K miles single-handed to Mex and back. Made some amazing friends and is the reason I am moving forward with this amazing boat. And hey, I know the definition of hard work. I beat back to CA in a wet old Alberg design with no spray hood. Bah, that was a wet and wild

The finish results are mainly going to be determined in the prep. I've sprayed cabinets and have worked (with great results) on some pretty fine finishes, so I know what it takes. Looking forward to the challenge.

This is just scaling up… big time. I am ready for this challenge, and in some way, looking forward to the pain and misery ahead. Because I see the potential. And the great part is she's a wonderfully outfitted cruising boat. All the things + spares. I'll end up re-doing the standing rigging in the next few years, but she's been well taken care of.

On a happier note, as luck would have it, my buddy is picking up his newly purchased Nor'Sea 27 tomorrow, and we've got a little overnighter planned in the bay. Will be so nice to get on the water for a touch and remind me why the hell I am doing all this.

Cheers!

Cheers!
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Old 20-08-2015, 14:14   #21
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Originally Posted by SF Bay Dude View Post
I found this at my local Sears. That's as big of a tank as I want and can carry down. Specs say it will flow 6.8@40 and 5.1@90, so hopefully it can keep up for 15min like Minaret says. As for the RO sander, I think I am going with this Bosch. Maybe I'll get the Bosch as a main and one of these as backup. The Bosch seems to have good reviews and a 1 year no question asked warranty. Hopefully I don't burn it up!

Minaret, what would be the big difference between electric RO sanders and this IR sander that's air driven? Driving a honda vs ferrari? I'll still go with the electric Bosch though, just so I can rest the compressor like you say. Sorry for all the tool talk, but A: It seems like getting all this gelcoat off properly and as fair as possible is just as important as laying the new stuff down. In the end it's grunt work and will be fine, but I'd like to be outfitted with the right tools to make the job go well. And B: I'd like to purchase the tools soon so that I can worry about the other million things that need to happen.

I'll be calculating the area for quantities of gel and paint soon, and will throw my numbers up to see if I am close to the mark. Can anyone recommend a supplier on the West Coast with decent prices? I've done some searches and found a few, but any experience first-hand would be great. I am in SF, but will be passing through LA as well (and Arizona), so I can pick it up on my way south. I'll wait to buy materials until last minute to get the freshest stuff possible.

Thanks in advance again, especially to Minaret!!! But please, if anyone else has done something like this with pearls gained from experience, please chime in too

Cheers!
Difference is in horsepower to push coarse 8" aggressively.


Be sure to source gel by the fiver or even drum. It will be vastly cheaper. Given your locale, I'd try Revchem first. You can always order from Fiberlay too.
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Old 20-08-2015, 14:35   #22
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

Subscribed!

Ever heard of the term 'Sandinsanity'? I coined that phrase but somehow I think it's gonna apply to you soon SF Bay Dude!

Minaret's got the experience. If you can follow his instructions you'll do well!

Carry on!
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Old 20-08-2015, 18:12   #23
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Subscribed!

Ever heard of the term 'Sandinsanity'? I coined that phrase but somehow I think it's gonna apply to you soon SF Bay Dude!

Minaret's got the experience. If you can follow his instructions you'll do well!

Carry on!
It's in my vocabulary now!

Just spoke with previous owner and he said they didn't build the decks out of a mold. Here's what he wrote:

Quote:
Back in the days when Skookum was laying up their boat DECKS there was NO bond window in their 'layup decking.' At best, on these decks, there was only a mechanical bond going on. The decks were not made in a mold but were made as built up from the bare hull. That is why they are so strong. And that is why they were desperate to try out anything that could cut off a few hours of labor. Imagine sanding these decks down to smooth after applying the glass. That is why every time I go into the cockpit I just wonder who the slave was that did that sanding.....
The decks consist of two 1/2 inch layers of marine plywood over 2X4 clear oak frames. Then a thin skinning of fiberglass (about 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch) was applied over that, think of it like a really thick paint job. No fiberglass was applied to the inside of the decks, so they will never rot out due to trapped moisture.
You can see some gray looking undercoating in some of the images that I've posted of the coachroof. Maybe that's it… Who knows? Either way it's coming off!
I guess Ed Monk Sr.'s tagline, "Strength at any cost," should have been amended with "Strength and superior finishing at any cost." That said, the hull is sounds as a pound. 23 tonnes! Sometimes I wonder what the hell I got myself into
Nah… I can't wait to bash up the coast and bring her home to CA.
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Old 21-08-2015, 04:53   #24
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Sometimes I wonder what the hell I got myself into Nah… I can't wait to bash up the coast and bring her home to CA.
Oh you will have a few of those 'WTH have I gotten myself into moments!" Guaranteed! They look like this....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...GOPR0008-8.jpg

and this....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...I/IMG_0518.jpg

If you can find some cheap help at Lowes or Home Depot, the 'undocumented democrats', you'll save yourself a few of those moments!

Carry on....
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Old 21-08-2015, 19:34   #25
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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It's in my vocabulary now!

Just spoke with previous owner and he said they didn't build the decks out of a mold. Here's what he wrote:



You can see some gray looking undercoating in some of the images that I've posted of the coachroof. Maybe that's it… Who knows? Either way it's coming off!
I guess Ed Monk Sr.'s tagline, "Strength at any cost," should have been amended with "Strength and superior finishing at any cost." That said, the hull is sounds as a pound. 23 tonnes! Sometimes I wonder what the hell I got myself into
Nah… I can't wait to bash up the coast and bring her home to CA.


That's interesting. I wouldn't expect to see bond failure that severe with a mechanical bond. It'd be difficult to explain. Only severe contamination (built outside in the dew?) could explain a bond failure that uniform in a mechanical bond situation. My guess is, given the construction method, they attempted to glass the decks and then immediately apply a ton of gel by chemical bond, and in this case they missed the window. I'd have to see it in person though. Got any good close ups of what it looks like under a freshly flaked area? Also given the construction method, are we absolutely certain we're looking at gel and not paint? Gotta ask. "Gray undercoat" really makes me wonder. I'll ask a friend who owns a Skookum. There are several owners around here too, maybe they'll chime in. I did a total rebuild on one once (Skookum Queen), but it was so long ago I don't remember the details of deck construction.
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Old 21-08-2015, 20:02   #26
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

Bay Dude,

You might check to see how much of your stuff you can take into Mex. without paying duty on it. Last I knew the max was $300 per person per trip. I don't know if tools that you will bring back out with you count in that or not. Duty used to be 30% so this is not to be taken lightly. I took a lot of stuff in over the years. Stuff like fiberglass poles that could be taken for down riggers and light stuff they barely looked at. Cast iron water injection elbows they got really serious about. I have Ford Lehman engines and I had receipt from American Diesel and still he really thought the elbow should have more than $120 value. Have receipts for everything.
Good luck with your project.

My friend has had some luck with taking things and marking them for XXX yacht in transit in some of the Latin American countries. It didn't work well for him in Mex. Panama is very accommodating to bringing in boat parts.....
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Old 21-08-2015, 20:13   #27
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Bay Dude,

You might check to see how much of your stuff you can take into Mex. without paying duty on it. Last I knew the max was $300 per person per trip. I don't know if tools that you will bring back out with you count in that or not. Duty used to be 30% so this is not to be taken lightly. I took a lot of stuff in over the years. Stuff like fiberglass poles that could be taken for down riggers and light stuff they barely looked at. Cast iron water injection elbows they got really serious about. I have Ford Lehman engines and I had receipt from American Diesel and still he really thought the elbow should have more than $120 value. Have receipts for everything.
Good luck with your project.

My friend has had some luck with taking things and marking them for XXX yacht in transit in some of the Latin American countries. It didn't work well for him in Mex. Panama is very accommodating to bringing in boat parts.....

Makes a big difference which border crossing you take. Much has been written about it, even here on CF. Do research, but it's still always a risk and good advice to have receipts, if needed. I believe you don't have to pay duty on parts for a boat with a TIP in Mexico. Also much discussed here. Convincing the border guards this is the case is the issue.
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Old 22-08-2015, 00:49   #28
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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Originally Posted by darylat8750 View Post
Bay Dude,

You might check to see how much of your stuff you can take into Mex. without paying duty on it. Last I knew the max was $300 per person per trip. I don't know if tools that you will bring back out with you count in that or not. Duty used to be 30% so this is not to be taken lightly. I took a lot of stuff in over the years. Stuff like fiberglass poles that could be taken for down riggers and light stuff they barely looked at. Cast iron water injection elbows they got really serious about. I have Ford Lehman engines and I had receipt from American Diesel and still he really thought the elbow should have more than $120 value. Have receipts for everything.
Good luck with your project.

My friend has had some luck with taking things and marking them for XXX yacht in transit in some of the Latin American countries. It didn't work well for him in Mex. Panama is very accommodating to bringing in boat parts.....
Thanks for the heads up. I sorta already did a dry run, as I visited the boat last winter. I drove down through Nogales and the border patrol station is self check in. There aren't any roulette green/red lights to pass through. I just signed in stating my end destination and filled out the regular paperwork. They didn't look in my van and wished me well. It was just after the Xmas holidays, so maybe they were light on staff. I am starting to lean more towards only using electric sanders, as the previous skippy told me the fuse box in the yard is rated around 100amps, and trying to pull a lot or power - like a big compressor - coupled with other snowbirds doing work too might be an issue…as in blown fuses and no power. More calculus...

I am weighing all options right now.

Quote:
I believe you don't have to pay duty on parts for a boat with a TIP in Mexico. Also much discussed here. Convincing the border guards this is the case is the issue.
Good to know, or at least have that idea/excuse in my pocket. The other nice thing I speak decent Spanish. A gringo always gets better treatment when throwing down in the mother tongue

Quote:
I'd have to see it in person though. Got any good close ups of what it looks like under a freshly flaked area? Also given the construction method, are we absolutely certain we're looking at gel and not paint? Gotta ask. "Gray undercoat" really makes me wonder.
When I peel some big sections back I'll take some shots so you can have a better look at it. I don't have any decent shots at this time, except maybe take a peak at the original shots that I posted somewhere in the thread. It's definitely gel coming off. Check out the pics, especially one of the coachroof where slabs are coming off.
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:21   #29
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

We are near completion of a complete rebuild-refit on our 47' Skookum. This included new decks. For non skid I chose Rustoleum's Advanced Restore in the color 'canvas'. Prep was a thick buildup of Awlgrip 545 epoxy primer, then completely toothed with 60 grit on circular pattern. Vacuumed, acetone wiped with many clean cloths, then rolled 2 coats per directions. Masking tape around gloss areas. One piece of deck has been getting walked on by many workers each day and aside from getting dirty shows no wear.

Rustoleum does not list fiberglass surfaces as intended. However, when I spoke with their technical people and they questioned me about the surface preperation they were accepting of what I'd done.

I chose it because it is repairable, is grippy, is latex based, has a warrenty, is inexpensive.

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Old 25-08-2015, 15:10   #30
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Re: Skookum 47 Refit - San Francisco to Mexico

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We are near completion of a complete rebuild-refit on our 47' Skookum. This included new decks. For non skid I chose Rustoleum's Advanced Restore in the color 'canvas'. Prep was a thick buildup of Awlgrip 545 epoxy primer, then completely toothed with 60 grit on circular pattern. Vacuumed, acetone wiped with many clean cloths, then rolled 2 coats per directions. Masking tape around gloss areas. One piece of deck has been getting walked on by many workers each day and aside from getting dirty shows no wear.

Rustoleum does not list fiberglass surfaces as intended. However, when I spoke with their technical people and they questioned me about the surface preperation they were accepting of what I'd done.

I chose it because it is repairable, is grippy, is latex based, has a warrenty, is inexpensive.

SV Drakus in Oriental, NC
Thanks for the info dissidens. It sounds like you've done all the proper prep work, which is where you'll see the results of a clean and lasting finish. I'll end up staying in the marine family of paints, but again, if you and the reps think it will hold, then why not?! I just got a quart of Kiwi-Grip that I am going to be apply to a large area of plywood. I plan on hosing it down with water, walking and moving on it, taking a running jump onto it, etc., to see what kind of grip I'll get. I would love to use it, as it's water based and I don't have to deal with adding in a grip additive. Hopefully it's up to the challenge.

I am mired in some paint work around the house as it were… New garage door needed a finish coat before the rains come (they're gonna come, right?…) We need some rain. Also dug up a few images of the interior. Down below she is looking good. The varnish is a bit tired on the floor, but I'll get that spiffed up too. All in good time. This photo helps me keep going man. SO much work up top, but she's pretty dreamy down below.

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