Selecting type of bronze bushing for rudder

[sailor_ed]

My rudder is skeg hung with a bronze heel fitting which has been worn and become unacceptable . The shaft is SS and I intend to insert a bushing in the heel fitting. The question is whether or not this is a place for an Oilite bushing or just plain bronz? It is, of course in a very difficult spot to keep lubricated.

Or would some other sort of bearing be better? My previous boat had a oiled maple bushing but there's not enough room on this heel fitting.

Thanks

[Dymaxion]

Does the oil stay in the Oilite bearing when held underwater? I can't answer that. Someone? Anyone? Machine shop I had make a rudder bushing used some suitable bronze. They had many years of marine experience. I greased it well and slipped in the rudder shaft. Only 2 summers sailing so no opinion yet.

[boden36]

I have always used HDPE bushes for our rudder. Water is an adequate lubricant for this application. If the loading is high, maybe a metallic bushing of the type you already have may be better, especially if the existing one has lasted well.



Regards,
Richard.

[Jim Cate]

Some folks use standard rubber lined cutless bearing in such places. Will never wear out, uses water lube and not too dear to purchase.

Jim

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by sailor_ed

My rudder is skeg hung with a bronze heel fitting which has been worn and become unacceptable . The shaft is SS and I intend to insert a bushing in the heel fitting. The question is whether or not this is a place for an Oilite bushing or just plain bronz? It is, of course in a very difficult spot to keep lubricated.

Or would some other sort of bearing be better? My previous boat had a oiled maple bushing but there's not enough room on this heel fitting.

Thanks

I had a similar issue on a past vessel [Valiant Esprit 37.]

I thought twice about removing the heel fitting, boring, and fitting a bronze/delrin/uhmw bushing [that would then have to be lapped as it is highly unlikely everything will be in alignment...]

Instead I used West Epoxy mixed with a graphite filler [caution- don't sneeze...] formulated for making such a bushing. You can pour [cast] it in place after getting everything cleaned out and prepared.

From p56 of the West Boat Repair Manual:

Prepare a bearing mixture of 105 Resin/hardener and a blend of 50% 406 Colloidal Silica
and 50% 423 Graphite Powder. The epoxy/406/423 mixture should have the consistency
of mayonnaise to prevent running or sagging.

This worked very well for the several ensuing years I had the boat, and likely still is [~25 years later...]

In case this is helpful.

Cheers! Bill

[Wotname]

I used Delrin.

[TeddyDiver]

Phospor bronze, it's what self lubricating bearings are made of..

[Matsubob]

I don't know if it is the best but my boat (30 foot Mikawa) uses Delrin bushings. They are easily machined to fit and are self lubricating with water.

[Cheechako]

I would use a machined bronze bearing rather than the brittle Oilite cast.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Some folks use standard rubber lined cutless bearing in such places. Will never wear out, uses water lube and not too dear to purchase.

Jim

I agree-
I have used (reused) cutlass bearings from other boats-they work underwater- never wear out, and used ones are often fine. I will suggest they may need to be turned down a couple thousandths in a lathe to fit snug- If room put a couple set screws into shoe then set in with red color lock tight (the permanent stuff) , twenty years it can come out with some heat if needed.

[sailor_ed]

Thanks all for the excellent advice. I am leaning toward the Cutless solution but I have the summer to think about it until I haul for the winter here in New England.

[Cheechako]

My guess is the Cutlass is a BAD idea. Why? because with a prop shaft it rotates fast and floats in the water cushion. A rudder doesnt even fully rotate and will wear on one side more likely than not. Rubber will wear oblong fast. There is no water effect any more than there is in a bronze bushing. JMHO.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

My guess is the Cutlass is a BAD idea. Why? because with a prop shaft it rotates fast and floats in the water cushion. A rudder doesnt even fully rotate and will wear on one side more likely than not. Rubber will wear oblong fast. There is no water effect any more than there is in a bronze bushing. JMHO.

Cheech, that does not seem to be the case with the folks I have known who did this. And Boat Driver's post just upthread also supports the practice.

Jim

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Cheech, that does not seem to be the case with the folks I have known who did this. And Boat Driver's post just upthread also supports the practice.



Jim

I put a bronze sleeve in my rudder shoe and slop returned pretty quickly, the groupthink on a sistership mailing list was that sand collects in the shoe and has nowhere to go and causes the wear. If that theory is sound, it would be a strong argument against using a cutless.

Also, at least in my shoe, we are only talking about an inch of length to be working with, if that. On the other hand it’ll only see like a zillionth the rotation that the prop cutless sees.

Dunno, interesting idea.

[stormalong]

Mine uses a cutlass bearing. Since I have put so many miles on my boat, now over 130,000 I can tell you it is a good solution.

I replaced it once in 1995 before circumnavigating. The old one was worn out and had a lot of abrasive grit in it from hull scrapings. Flash forward to 2009 when I pulled the rudder again for upper bearing replacement. This was after a circumnavigation and a lot of other cruising. I cannot tell you how many miles under the keel without checking the logbooks. The bearing was it pretty good shape - no grit in the bearing. I wonder how the grit got in there. Maybe just sloppy yard work.

I replaced it since I had the rudder out. Just to be cautious I drilled a 1/2 inch hole in the bottom of the shoe so that any grit that got in there could wash out. Whether or not drilling the hole through the shoe made any difference I cannot say, I have not had the rudder out since 2009.

All I can say it the since 2009 we have sailed from New Zealand to Washington state and on subsequent haul outs I have seen no significant rudder movement in the shoe. The rudder post in solid Aquamet 22 - two inch diameter and a shinny as it was when new. There was enough length in the cutlass bearing to make three inserts for the shoe. I still have one left for the next time it is needed - if I live that long. Now I only put a couple of thousand miles on it each year.