Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2016, 22:07   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
sealants

I'm sure this has been asked before but I'm new so please forgive me if its a repeat. I was watching video on YouTube from a guy that is refurbishing a boat, its a 78 transworld 41 ketch. He was speaking with another boat owner that had repaired something on his own boat and had used silicone and made a comment that silicone was generally frowned upon by most serious boaters. My question is why is it frowned upon. I come from a construction background and silicone is one of the best sealants as well as the most common. It's used in bathrooms, kitchens, exterior and including roofs. Is there anything wrong with silicone on a boat? Or is it more personal choice? My next question is what wood is most common for decorative or even some functional pieces? I seem to remember teak being used quite a bit on boats, is that the wood that looks grey and weathered? And finally, deck hardware. Hinges, cleats, (rope guides?), handles, ect. Are they aluminum or brass? How do you maintain them in visually appealing condition?

I know it's a lot of questions and please keep in mind I know next to nothing about boats, I'm trying to learn. Thanks in advance!
__________________

__________________
jasonbailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 19:41   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
Re: sealants

If you can only answer one or two thats fine. I just would like to learn some of the answers.
__________________

__________________
jasonbailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 19:57   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,767
Re: sealants

Silicone has a place, but once it's applied, virtually nothing else will stick following it's application.

Teak is the preferred wood, but mahogany, fir, ipe, Purple Heart, and other woods are also used.

Most good metal parts on boats are made of bronze, followed by a stainless, and aluminium.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 20:04   #4
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 1,231
Re: sealants

And if you do decide to use sealant, use marine sealant. Lot of people swear by Sikaflex. There might also be a reason why 5200 might be appropriate, but you don't know what you don't know. You have to do the research to know what the different types will or won't do (and how much trouble and headache they can cause you if you use them inappropriately).

Look up Tefgel, too, for anything that has threads.

As to wood for interior shelves, I've used a nice spruce plywood piece and then stained in a color that matches my teak and varnished it.
__________________
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 20:34   #5
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 466
Re: sealants

If you would like a better sealing sealant you should try butyl tape it is really good stuff.I personally never use silicone on the exterior Here is a link to a great way to use butyl
Re-Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
__________________
sartorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 01:13   #6
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: sealants

Silicon (despite the many applications) doesn't hold up to the sun or salt water.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 01:41   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: sealants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Silicon (despite the many applications) doesn't hold up to the sun or salt water.
While I do not use silicones all that much, your statement does not agree with my experience. Seems that at least some silicone sealants are quite good with UV exposure, and I've not seen the seawater degradation that you quote.

It's bond strength is much lower (in most applications) than the urethanes, or even the polysulphides. However, for attaching glazing, it is considered the choice method by many pros... like the guys who build high rise all glass buildings. That application certainly gets long term UV blasting...

Anyhow, for most applications on board, one of the urethane or polysulphide sealants is a better choice... things like Sikaflex 291, 3m5200 or Lifecaulk. A cruise through the West Marine catalog will give lots of choices.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 01:55   #8
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: sealants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
While I do not use silicones all that much, your statement does not agree with my experience. Seems that at least some silicone sealants are quite good with UV exposure, and I've not seen the seawater degradation that you quote.

It's bond strength is much lower (in most applications) than the urethanes, or even the polysulphides. However, for attaching glazing, it is considered the choice method by many pros... like the guys who build high rise all glass buildings. That application certainly gets long term UV blasting...

Anyhow, for most applications on board, one of the urethane or polysulphide sealants is a better choice... things like Sikaflex 291, 3m5200 or Lifecaulk. A cruise through the West Marine catalog will give lots of choices.

Jim
Well, i really have no idea what high rise window builders use, and i have no doubt there are UV stabalised silicon's such as what you should use on colourbond guttering. But i wouldnt use guttering silicon on a boat.

My boat seemed to have clear silicon used for just about everywhere. No doubt an over exaggeration, but it seemed like it was when cleaning it all up. And 'everywhere' i have found it, it has broken down, released, failed to stick and fallen away. For a boat, it seems like terrible stuff to me. I use marine Sikaflex 291 where i can. Id try Butyl, but it seems impossible to get in australia. For sealling my windiws i used 295.

Is there a silicon that is recommended for boats? (Clearly there is now i have googled it. But its equally clear that many boaters believe silicon sealants shouldnt go anywhere near a boat. I dont know that much about it. Just that i hate it when ive found it on my boat)
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 02:07   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: sealants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Well, i really have no idea what high rise window builders use, and i have no doubt there are UV stabalised silicon's such as what you should use on colourbond guttering. But i wouldnt use guttering silicon on a boat.

My boat seemed to have clear silicon used for just about everywhere. No doubt an over exaggeration, but it seemed like it was when cleaning it all up. And 'everywhere' i have found it, it has broken down, released, failed to stick and fallen away. For a boat, it seems like terrible stuff to me. I use marine Sikaflex 291 where i can. Id try Butyl, but it seems impossible to get in australia. For sealling my windiws i used 295.

Is there a silicon that is recommended for boats?
When one finds large usage of any sealant on an older boat, one can guess that the person who applied it might not have used it in the best manner, or in appropriate applications. It sounds a little like a PO was smearing it about in hopes of stopping chronic leaks or suchlike, and it's possible that no "magic in a tube" would have worked!

As I said in my post, there are better choices for yachting applications for the most part, and the Sika products are good and available here in Oz. I've largely switched to Fixtec myself, mostly due to it's much longer life after opening the tube or cartridge. I've thrown away far too much 291 that has gone off in the can, and the Fixtec lasts far longer, seems to have pretty similar properties.

I do believe that Boat Life has a "marine silicone", but have never used it.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 02:12   #10
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: sealants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
When one finds large usage of any sealant on an older boat, one can guess that the person who applied it might not have used it in the best manner, or in appropriate applications. It sounds a little like a PO was smearing it about in hopes of stopping chronic leaks or suchlike, and it's possible that no "magic in a tube" would have worked!

As I said in my post, there are better choices for yachting applications for the most part, and the Sika products are good and available here in Oz. I've largely switched to Fixtec myself, mostly due to it's much longer life after opening the tube or cartridge. I've thrown away far too much 291 that has gone off in the can, and the Fixtec lasts far longer, seems to have pretty similar properties.

I do believe that Boat Life has a "marine silicone", but have never used it.

Jim
YES, thats what i hate too. $22 a pop and it has to be used within a week or it goes off. And you cant purchase little toothpate size tubes

Fixtec? Ill look into that.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 02:43   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: sealants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
YES, thats what i hate too. $22 a pop and it has to be used within a week or it goes off. And you cant purchase little toothpate size tubes

Fixtec? Ill look into that.
Another thing you can do to prolong the life of an open tube of Sika is to first use some thin pliofilm under the cap to seal the joint at the opening, and then store the tube in the fridge. Will keep a lot longer, but with a small boat fridge, we had to choose between cold beer and Sika... guess who wins?

And most Whitworth stores keep the Fixtec stuff on the shelf.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 02:49   #12
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: sealants

Another vote from me for Fixtech.

As for silicone, I think part of the reason it has a bad reputation is that it gets used by the inexperienced for jobs that it unsuitable for -as Jim said!
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 07:19   #13
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 466
Re: sealants

I have been helping a friend remove all his ports to reseal that were installed maybe 3 years ago with silicone that were leaking and it was the silicone sent by the manufacturer of the windows ! What I don't under stand is it's so hard to get off but fails so easily?
Another friend had developed a leak around his large fixed acrylic ports we were trying to decide the best removal procedure when with a slight push it fell out !!! spent the rest of the day removing the old silicone so we could get a good seal for the butyl and edged with silicone only for looks
__________________
sartorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 12:23   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 315
Re: sealants

The stuff used to install windows in highrises is NOT regular silicon, it is classed a structural adhesive it is also good for installing lexan on a boat.
I also work construction, can honestly say I haven't used regular silicone on any job in longer than I can remember, many better products available today.
If I have to use something silicone like onboard for a temporary seal I use Mono Ultra, cleans off easily and you can bond or paint where it was applied without issue when you do a proper repair.
__________________
Siberianhusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 12:31   #15
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: sealants

The ONLY place silicone works on a boat, or at least MY boat, is for the Beckson portlights. Beckson specifies the use of silicone for their plastic. Other than the eight Becksons I have, almost half of them rebedded over the years, I use butyl tape from Maine Sail, great stuff. Use it for stanchions and chainplates.

5200 is Satan's Glue and shouldn't be used for anything you want to reasonably ever try to take apart, or use it for the hull to deck joint (same qualifier, right?).

Silicone used for anything else other than the Beckson ports is just asking for trouble when a much better product (butyl tape) is available. You don't use a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sealant

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4.108 Oil Leaks and Engine Gasket Sealants phorvati Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 23-03-2012 11:25
Sealants bcguy Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 18-02-2012 16:42
Fuel tank sealants drh1965 Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 05-09-2007 09:02
Refrigeration Sealants GordMay Construction, Maintenance & Refit 23 20-06-2006 07:07
GE sealants irwinsailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 08-11-2004 00:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.