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22-02-2016, 21:07
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
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sealants
I'm sure this has been asked before but I'm new so please forgive me if its a repeat. I was watching video on YouTube from a guy that is refurbishing a boat, its a 78 transworld 41 ketch. He was speaking with another boat owner that had repaired something on his own boat and had used silicone and made a comment that silicone was generally frowned upon by most serious boaters. My question is why is it frowned upon. I come from a construction background and silicone is one of the best sealants as well as the most common. It's used in bathrooms, kitchens, exterior and including roofs. Is there anything wrong with silicone on a boat? Or is it more personal choice? My next question is what wood is most common for decorative or even some functional pieces? I seem to remember teak being used quite a bit on boats, is that the wood that looks grey and weathered? And finally, deck hardware. Hinges, cleats, (rope guides?), handles, ect. Are they aluminum or brass? How do you maintain them in visually appealing condition?
I know it's a lot of questions and please keep in mind I know next to nothing about boats, I'm trying to learn. Thanks in advance!
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23-02-2016, 18:41
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
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Re: sealants
If you can only answer one or two thats fine. I just would like to learn some of the answers.
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23-02-2016, 18:57
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 9,626
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Re: sealants
Silicone has a place, but once it's applied, virtually nothing else will stick following it's application.
Teak is the preferred wood, but mahogany, fir, ipe, Purple Heart, and other woods are also used.
Most good metal parts on boats are made of bronze, followed by a stainless, and aluminium.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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23-02-2016, 19:04
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,503
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Re: sealants
And if you do decide to use sealant, use marine sealant. Lot of people swear by Sikaflex. There might also be a reason why 5200 might be appropriate, but you don't know what you don't know. You have to do the research to know what the different types will or won't do (and how much trouble and headache they can cause you if you use them inappropriately).
Look up Tefgel, too, for anything that has threads.
As to wood for interior shelves, I've used a nice spruce plywood piece and then stained in a color that matches my teak and varnished it.
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24-02-2016, 00:13
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,953
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Re: sealants
Silicon (despite the many applications) doesn't hold up to the sun or salt water.
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24-02-2016, 00:41
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: sealants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm
Silicon (despite the many applications) doesn't hold up to the sun or salt water.
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While I do not use silicones all that much, your statement does not agree with my experience. Seems that at least some silicone sealants are quite good with UV exposure, and I've not seen the seawater degradation that you quote.
It's bond strength is much lower (in most applications) than the urethanes, or even the polysulphides. However, for attaching glazing, it is considered the choice method by many pros... like the guys who build high rise all glass buildings. That application certainly gets long term UV blasting...
Anyhow, for most applications on board, one of the urethane or polysulphide sealants is a better choice... things like Sikaflex 291, 3m5200 or Lifecaulk. A cruise through the West Marine catalog will give lots of choices.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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24-02-2016, 00:55
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,953
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Re: sealants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
While I do not use silicones all that much, your statement does not agree with my experience. Seems that at least some silicone sealants are quite good with UV exposure, and I've not seen the seawater degradation that you quote.
It's bond strength is much lower (in most applications) than the urethanes, or even the polysulphides. However, for attaching glazing, it is considered the choice method by many pros... like the guys who build high rise all glass buildings. That application certainly gets long term UV blasting...
Anyhow, for most applications on board, one of the urethane or polysulphide sealants is a better choice... things like Sikaflex 291, 3m5200 or Lifecaulk. A cruise through the West Marine catalog will give lots of choices.
Jim
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Well, i really have no idea what high rise window builders use, and i have no doubt there are UV stabalised silicon's such as what you should use on colourbond guttering. But i wouldnt use guttering silicon on a boat.
My boat seemed to have clear silicon used for just about everywhere. No doubt an over exaggeration, but it seemed like it was when cleaning it all up. And 'everywhere' i have found it, it has broken down, released, failed to stick and fallen away. For a boat, it seems like terrible stuff to me. I use marine Sikaflex 291 where i can. Id try Butyl, but it seems impossible to get in australia. For sealling my windiws i used 295.
Is there a silicon that is recommended for boats? (Clearly there is now i have googled it. But its equally clear that many boaters believe silicon sealants shouldnt go anywhere near a boat. I dont know that much about it. Just that i hate it when ive found it on my boat)
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24-02-2016, 01:07
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: sealants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm
Well, i really have no idea what high rise window builders use, and i have no doubt there are UV stabalised silicon's such as what you should use on colourbond guttering. But i wouldnt use guttering silicon on a boat.
My boat seemed to have clear silicon used for just about everywhere. No doubt an over exaggeration, but it seemed like it was when cleaning it all up. And 'everywhere' i have found it, it has broken down, released, failed to stick and fallen away. For a boat, it seems like terrible stuff to me. I use marine Sikaflex 291 where i can. Id try Butyl, but it seems impossible to get in australia. For sealling my windiws i used 295.
Is there a silicon that is recommended for boats?
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When one finds large usage of any sealant on an older boat, one can guess that the person who applied it might not have used it in the best manner, or in appropriate applications. It sounds a little like a PO was smearing it about in hopes of stopping chronic leaks or suchlike, and it's possible that no "magic in a tube" would have worked!
As I said in my post, there are better choices for yachting applications for the most part, and the Sika products are good and available here in Oz. I've largely switched to Fixtec myself, mostly due to it's much longer life after opening the tube or cartridge. I've thrown away far too much 291 that has gone off in the can, and the Fixtec lasts far longer, seems to have pretty similar properties.
I do believe that Boat Life has a "marine silicone", but have never used it.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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24-02-2016, 01:12
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,953
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Re: sealants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
When one finds large usage of any sealant on an older boat, one can guess that the person who applied it might not have used it in the best manner, or in appropriate applications. It sounds a little like a PO was smearing it about in hopes of stopping chronic leaks or suchlike, and it's possible that no "magic in a tube" would have worked!
As I said in my post, there are better choices for yachting applications for the most part, and the Sika products are good and available here in Oz. I've largely switched to Fixtec myself, mostly due to it's much longer life after opening the tube or cartridge. I've thrown away far too much 291 that has gone off in the can, and the Fixtec lasts far longer, seems to have pretty similar properties.
I do believe that Boat Life has a "marine silicone", but have never used it.
Jim
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YES, thats what i hate too. $22 a pop and it has to be used within a week or it goes off. And you cant purchase little toothpate size tubes
Fixtec? Ill look into that.
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24-02-2016, 01:43
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: sealants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm
YES, thats what i hate too. $22 a pop and it has to be used within a week or it goes off. And you cant purchase little toothpate size tubes
Fixtec? Ill look into that.
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Another thing you can do to prolong the life of an open tube of Sika is to first use some thin pliofilm under the cap to seal the joint at the opening, and then store the tube in the fridge. Will keep a lot longer, but with a small boat fridge, we had to choose between cold beer and Sika... guess who wins?
And most Whitworth stores keep the Fixtec stuff on the shelf.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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24-02-2016, 01:49
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#12
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,242
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Re: sealants
Another vote from me for Fixtech.
As for silicone, I think part of the reason it has a bad reputation is that it gets used by the inexperienced for jobs that it unsuitable for -as Jim said!
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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24-02-2016, 06:19
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 467
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Re: sealants
I have been helping a friend remove all his ports to reseal that were installed maybe 3 years ago with silicone that were leaking and it was the silicone sent by the manufacturer of the windows ! What I don't under stand is it's so hard to get off but fails so easily?
Another friend had developed a leak around his large fixed acrylic ports we were trying to decide the best removal procedure when with a slight push it fell out !!! spent the rest of the day removing the old silicone so we could get a good seal for the butyl and edged with silicone only for looks
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25-02-2016, 11:23
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 346
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Re: sealants
The stuff used to install windows in highrises is NOT regular silicon, it is classed a structural adhesive it is also good for installing lexan on a boat.
I also work construction, can honestly say I haven't used regular silicone on any job in longer than I can remember, many better products available today.
If I have to use something silicone like onboard for a temporary seal I use Mono Ultra, cleans off easily and you can bond or paint where it was applied without issue when you do a proper repair.
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25-02-2016, 11:31
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,703
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Re: sealants
The ONLY place silicone works on a boat, or at least MY boat, is for the Beckson portlights. Beckson specifies the use of silicone for their plastic. Other than the eight Becksons I have, almost half of them rebedded over the years, I use butyl tape from Maine Sail, great stuff. Use it for stanchions and chainplates.
5200 is Satan's Glue and shouldn't be used for anything you want to reasonably ever try to take apart, or use it for the hull to deck joint (same qualifier, right?).
Silicone used for anything else other than the Beckson ports is just asking for trouble when a much better product (butyl tape) is available. You don't use a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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