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Old 12-07-2018, 21:10   #1
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Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Hi all,

I'm replacing the decks on the boat. Now is a good time to reassess some assumptions.

Currently the bow of the boat has two very substantial cleats for lines from the bow, both set back about three or four feet from the fairleads at the bow.

The boat is a cutter, with a broad and reasonably clear foredeck. However the cutter means there is a staysail stay terminating on the deck about two feet back from the bow.

There is also a vertical anchor windlass a foot further back from the staysail stay.

I can fit a sampson post up forward if I jiggle things around a bit, but I am not sure if it is a better option than the two big deck mounted cleats.

Downside that I can see is that I'd be up with all the clutter of the staysail and forward jib/yankee when tying up, upside would be two fewer cleats on the deck.

Thoughts? Anyone have a preference.
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Old 12-07-2018, 22:04   #2
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Matt, we have a sturdy bitt on the foredeck, just ahead of the windlass and well ahead of the Solent stay... no cleats. I feel that this is quite sturdy, and the leads are good, but I'd sure like to have a pair of outboard cleats of good size as well. There have been times when that single point has been kinda over subscribed... too many lines on it, making adjustment difficult, or even making the last line fast difficult.

So, if there really is room for your post, it would be useful. But if it screws up access to other important bits, well, I dunno... a hard choice! One possible alternative is to place one of those folding or pop-up cleats there in the middle. Not as strong as a Sampson post, but not so much in the way.

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Old 12-07-2018, 22:22   #3
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

I think you'll find that's "samson", not "sampson" as in the biblical strongman


Are your headsails furling? If not, I'd go along with your concern about "clutter" when trying to rig mooring/dock lines.


Like Jim, I'd go for one as well as cleats, but not so much as an alternative.
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Old 12-07-2018, 22:22   #4
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Greater flexibility with your present arrangement.... especially if you ever find yourself rafting up....

If its not broke why bother fixing it?

Do you have midships cleats... if not then direct your efforts there....
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Old 12-07-2018, 22:51   #5
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post.
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Old 13-07-2018, 00:08   #6
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Doesn't a pot require chocks?


If so, the ONLY thing that comes to mind about chocks is that they are saws for docklines.


Edge cleats firmly backed might b a more suitable option.
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Old 13-07-2018, 00:09   #7
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

GILow, maybe some photos of the present setup could be helpful.

BTW, how much of the deck are you replacing and with what? Off topic I know .
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Old 13-07-2018, 00:59   #8
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

I'd be pretty keen for both the samson post AND the cleats. The samson post is what you really want a mooring, towline and anchor snubber to go to. It should be strong without any questions. The cleats declutter things when rafting up or for a complex tie up. If they are set up right they do double duty as jackline anchor points, foreguy and preventer attachments while at sea.

If the samson post doesnt work there are a few other cunning ways to do something similar.

Also the samson post could be made from heavy stainless steel rather than wood.
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Old 13-07-2018, 01:06   #9
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Also no real reason why the samson post can't be off centre if need be, prehaps two, I each side!

Raising the base of the windlass 100mm can give a strong point to pass a mooring line around. The cleats might be able to bolt through your bulwarks. Not quite as strong as the deck but less chance of leaks/rot.
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Old 13-07-2018, 01:08   #10
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
I'd be pretty keen for both the samson post AND the cleats. The samson post is what you really want a mooring, towline and anchor snubber to go to. It should be strong without any questions. The cleats declutter things when rafting up or for a complex tie up. If they are set up right they do double duty as jackline anchor points, foreguy and preventer attachments while at sea.

If the samson post doesnt work there are a few other cunning ways to do something similar.

Also the samson post could be made from heavy stainless steel rather than wood.
+1 Re-markedly similar to what I was going to post but possibly worded somewhat better.
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Old 13-07-2018, 01:14   #11
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

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+1 Re-markedly similar to what I was going to post but possibly worded somewhat better.
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Old 13-07-2018, 03:09   #12
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Here's another vote for both good cleats (with backing plates) and the samson post.

They really do different jobs.

Someone mentioned midships cleats. Oh, my, yes. Not only for fore and aft springs, but also for "the brakes", the line that goes from amidships to the aftmost dock cleat when stopping; and for drogue attachment, and useful in a whole multitude of other scenarios that also involve inevitable emergency situations. ....maybe not inevitable, but not-yet-thought-of possibilities. Love our 'midships cleats.

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Old 13-07-2018, 03:36   #13
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

^^ absolutely Ann, midships cleats are fantastic, I like to have them a touch aft of midships so they dont pull the bow in too hard, and having them takes some of the pressure off the bow.

The stern usually has much more space, and lots of handy winches to cope with extra lines, but the bow often runs out of handy places to tie things onto..
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Old 13-07-2018, 04:01   #14
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.
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Old 13-07-2018, 04:22   #15
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Re: Sampson post vs deck cleats for foredeck.

Whatever cleats you use, make them as big as is easily practical. There is a special place in hell for undersized cleats.
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