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Old 03-09-2014, 07:27   #31
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

I use dyneema stays with bronze turnbuckles and chain plates. If covered from UV, it can probably live as long as a fiberglass hull. It is also much cheaper, stronger and lighter than stainless steel.

Galvanized wire can last 50 years if sealed.

Stainless steel is the wrong material to use for standing rigging for the same reason that stainless chain should never be used for anchoring.
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Old 03-09-2014, 13:26   #32
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

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I use dyneema stays with bronze turnbuckles and chain plates. If covered from UV, it can probably live as long as a fiberglass hull.

(...)
So we know that polyester work hardens and so does steel.

Spectra does not?

b.
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Old 03-09-2014, 13:40   #33
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

In contrast to the "don't worry about it school," I will tell you when we had the same event -- rust on new rigging within the year --the manufacturer/dealer sent someone to look at it and then replaced all of our rigging for free. So at least one dealer views this as a problem. Put a magnet on the rigging, if it's magnetized it's 304, which is stronger than 316 but then is brittle. We sail offshore every year and I wouldn't sleep well with rust showing. That said, sometimes the rust comes from the top fittings and would come down in the same barberpole pattern.

Fair winds, Hannah
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Old 03-09-2014, 20:40   #34
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

It's probably chinese made wire. We bought some a few years back for a topping lift and some safety cables and it was rusty brown in months. So we replaced it with american made wire from west marine about two years ago. So far so good.
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Old 25-09-2014, 03:01   #35
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

Thought I should do final update this thread. No rigger was able convincingly to clear up my problem (rust streaks coming out of newish stainless rigging and couple areas of pitting), so I decided only way to have confidence in the rig was to replace. The people who sold me the wire, RIGGING ONLY, were as mystified as anyone by the situation and say wire from the same rolls did not rust on other boats. But they accepted what happened and have fully reimbursed me. I don't know how many outfits have that kind of sense of responsibility -- you certainly wouldn't get it in a lot of places. Given everything, I have to assume this was a one-off sort of problem. Thanks Rigging Only, a place that understands sailors. Sebastian
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Old 25-09-2014, 03:28   #36
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

They should call it "the Chinese wire syndrome" . I've come across a few bolts and nuts like that from WM. After seeing those bleed rusty spots I now shop for any ss hardware with a magnet at hand. As they say "we can't change the winds but only adjust the sails".

And reading this thread makes me lean more and more toward replacing my rigging with spectra and titanium chain plates.
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Old 25-09-2014, 03:32   #37
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

well, despite what a few people always say, I think there are areas (rigging being one) where you can never be too careful. Maybe it is the China syndrome. However, it's clearly a very inconsistent problem since a lot of folk get along just fine, including what my riggers told me were lots of other clients who used wire from the same spools -- and i have no reason to doubt their word! thanks to everyone on this forum for the generous attempts to help me with feedback, by the way.
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Old 25-09-2014, 03:39   #38
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

Agree. By syndrome I did not mean any criticism of you but of the sellers of such substandard wire or at least mislabeling it. This has been a problem for a while, since very few US manufacturers are left, if any. And the dollar does buy as much as it used so reputable manufacturers outside the US are not as competitive as the sellers of chinese/korean junk. Walmartization of the boating industry but without the accompanying cheaper prices.
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Old 25-09-2014, 05:47   #39
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

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But they accepted what happened and have fully reimbursed me. I don't know how many outfits have that kind of sense of responsibility -- you certainly wouldn't get it in a lot of places. Given everything, I have to assume this was a one-off sort of problem. Thanks Rigging Only, a place that understands sailors. Sebastian
I feel that this is outstanding service from Rigging Only.
They could've turned their backs on the problem, but didn't, and that's just plain refreshing to hear.
Les
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Old 25-09-2014, 11:03   #40
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

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I feel that this is outstanding service from Rigging Only.
They could've turned their backs on the problem, but didn't, and that's just plain refreshing to hear.
Les
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Old 25-09-2014, 11:11   #41
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

Sebastian-
It sounds like Ro did the stand-up thing by you. Any chance that they mentioned the source of the wire?
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Old 25-09-2014, 11:34   #42
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

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Originally Posted by Hannah on 'Rita T' View Post
In contrast to the "don't worry about it school," I will tell you when we had the same event -- rust on new rigging within the year --the manufacturer/dealer sent someone to look at it and then replaced all of our rigging for free. So at least one dealer views this as a problem. Put a magnet on the rigging, if it's magnetized it's 304, which is stronger than 316 but then is brittle. We sail offshore every year and I wouldn't sleep well with rust showing. That said, sometimes the rust comes from the top fittings and would come down in the same barberpole pattern.

Fair winds, Hannah
3xx stainless has an austenite microstructure and is therefore non magnetic. 4xx stainless is martensite structure and is therefore magnetic. But 4xx is never used for wire rope. If your standing rigging is magnetic it's not 3xx stainless.

While 304 has a higher relative tensile strength than 316 it is more susceptible to corrosion when exposed to sea water. 304 ss is commonly used for architectural applications while 316 ss is used for marine applications. 316L is a low carbon higher quality ss that is less susceptible to intergranular corrosion and is tougher in dynamic loading applications like standing rigging.

Proper material selection is not as simplistic as simply choosing by tensile strength alone.

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Old 25-09-2014, 11:45   #43
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

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Agree. By syndrome I did not mean any criticism of you but of the sellers of such substandard wire or at least mislabeling it. This has been a problem for a while, since very few US manufacturers are left, if any. And the dollar does buy as much as it used so reputable manufacturers outside the US are not as competitive as the sellers of chinese/korean junk. Walmartization of the boating industry but without the accompanying cheaper prices.
Ideally you want your wire to be certified by material composition and by manufacturing process. This is difficult to get these days. I keep a clean sample in case I want to conduct testing if I run into problems. So far we haven't any issues with our standing rigging. If we do I'll test rigging samples and my clean samples back to back.

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Old 25-09-2014, 12:20   #44
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Re: Rust on New Standing Rigging

Tastes great, less filling. Everyone is right:

"
How Does an Austenitic Stainless Steel Become Magnetic?

As stated before, the microstructure of the metal is what gives the steel its magnetic properties. If the stainless steel chosen was austenitic, e.g. type 316, and a portion of the microstructure were changed to any one of the other four classes then the material would have some magnetic permeability, i.e. magnetism, built into the steel.
The microstructure of austenitic stainless steel can be changed by a process called martensitic stress induced transformation (MSIT). This is a microstructural change from austenite to martensite and the transformation can occur due to cold working (the process by which many fasteners are made) as well as slow cooling from austenitizing temperatures. After cold working or slow cooling an austenitic stainless steel will have an appreciable level of martensitic microstructure. Due to martensite being magnetic, the once nonmagnetic austenitic stainless steel will now have a degree of magnetism."

From Fastenal's web site at
https://www.fastenal.com/web/en/75/m...teel-fasteners

Since stainless wire has to be "worked" in order to spin it into cable, it should be possible to have 3xx grade stainless steel cable that exhibits some magnetism.
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