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Old 07-11-2013, 22:13   #1
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Running Rigging Thoughts

At some point soonish I will run most of the rigging back to the cockpit. Of course this will require new line as the current rigging is not long enough. I have a 44' 28000+lb mono. After hours and hours on websites and in a spread sheet I have come up with the following:
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(Line lengths need to be measured a few more times.)
The background colour = the line main colour.
The text colour = the tracer colour.
Bracketed #'s = the diameter in mm

VPC for all the halyards. Seems a great price point for low stretch.

The main sheet is in fact nylon. The reasoning here is at that diameter it is strong enough, but should still have some stretch for shock loads (gybes).

The Genoa halyard will stay at the mast as it is on a roller and I hope not to be futzing with it much.

The staysail is not on a furler, thus running it back aft.

The reef points may need a smaller clutch... so be it. I chose the smaller more "fancy" line for weight savings and visually just less muss on the sail.
Thoughts? Input?
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Old 07-11-2013, 22:25   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeon_tsd
At some point soonish I will run most of the rigging back to the cockpit. Of course this will require new line as the current rigging is not long enough. I have a 44' 28000+lb mono. After hours and hours on websites and in a spread sheet I have come up with the following:

(Line lengths need to be measured a few more times.)
The background colour = the line main colour.
The text colour = the tracer colour.
Bracketed #'s = the diameter in mm

VPC for all the halyards. Seems a great price point for low stretch.

The main sheet is in fact nylon. The reasoning here is at that diameter it is strong enough, but should still have some stretch for shock loads (gybes).

The Genoa halyard will stay at the mast as it is on a roller and I hope not to be futzing with it much.

The staysail is not on a furler, thus running it back aft.

The reef points may need a smaller clutch... so be it. I chose the smaller more "fancy" line for weight savings and visually just less muss on the sail.
Thoughts? Input?
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Don't use nylon for your mainsheet, I would suggest. You don't want any significant stretch in any sail control. The issue is not strength. Rig a preventer to prevent gybes.

Would also suggest going far to eliminate all possible stretch from halyards. I would go up a size and spend some money, if necessary, to get the lowest stretch dyneema you can find. I'm using the 14mm Marlow racing dyneema for mine -- admittedly, much bigger loads than on your boat, but I would think you would want 12mm, anyway. Halyards not the place to save money.
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Old 07-11-2013, 22:26   #3
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

I would have the fore sail halyards at the mast if you ever plan on sailing single or short handed. Seems that the times I need to lower the foresails, I have to be forward whether lowering or raising them. In the case of a furling sail, have to periodically feed the luff tape into the foil or corral the sail as it comes down and off the foil. With a banked on sail, often times need to pull it down or gather the foot while it's being lowered. If the halyard is in the cockpit, need an extra body to handle it and usually a strong body because of the added resistance that the turning blocks add.

Having the mainsail halyard and reefing lines back to the cockpit is a blessing.
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Old 07-11-2013, 22:29   #4
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

A couple of random comments from an unqualified amateur...

Spinnaker halyards
Unless you are a serious racer, with a good budget for new sails, I'd advise going with double-braid for your spinnaker halyards (same diameter as the VPC you specced). The reason being that the additional stretch in the double braid can act as a shock-absorber which means you are significantly less likely to destroy a spinnaker in a sudden gust.

Main sheet
I don't know what main-sheet system you have (but they all have some degree of purchase - typically 2:1, 4:1, or more) but frankly 16mm seems excessively large. I would have thought 9/16" or 1/2" would be big enough diameter

Vang
Again, I don't know what sort of vang system you are using, but vang loads can be very high. Typically, with a vang, you might have some sort of cascade, so that the first rope in the cascade seems the full load, the next rope only sees half, the next half again, etc. So you may well need different diameters of rope for different parts of the vang... without more details of your specific vang set up it is hard to say
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Old 07-11-2013, 22:41   #5
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

ooops! I put 12 mm in the brackets and did not change the column! I was planning on 12mm for sure.
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Old 07-11-2013, 22:54   #6
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

You have single line reefing? That is unusual on a boat your size. 8mm Endura reef lines are going to cost a fortune.
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Old 07-11-2013, 23:08   #7
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

Dockhead. - I do have a preventer. The thoughts here is that the nylon will absorb some of the load from non accidental gybes as well. Then the rigging wont have to. Admittedly part of my fear/paranoia around this is when I bought the boat I had to repair damage (including but not limited to replacing the boom) because of an unexpected gybe the previous owner experience. When reading around I found this interesting bit. http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/RightLinejob.pdf
Quote:
The vang, cruising spinnaker tack line and traveler control lines can again be Dacron

double
braid until the size gets too big. These three applications are exposed to shock loads and don’t
demand particularly low stretch so it makes sense to leave some stretch in them. Conventional
wisdom suggests that nylon is too stretchy fo
r any running rigging application. However, on
Hawk
we have actually added even more elasticity to these three specific applications by going
to nylon parallel core line (e.g. climbing line) at the suggestion of friends of ours on a 50-foot
high performance boat. This has worked very we
ll, adding a big cushioning factor to protect the
boat from hardware breakage during shock loads while not introducing too much stretch under
normal working loads.




roverhi - I could still handle the headsail lines at the mast. I would have to release the clutches or have some one in the cockpit do that. I am not planning on being alone. But definately will mull on your advice.



Weyalan - 9/16th is on there now... i could go down a size for sure. But *if* switching to nylon for the added shock absorption paranoia I now have, not sure I would want to.

RainDog - I have two lines that run through the boom and up to a reef point on the reef point on the leech. I would still need to go up and attach the luff and the ties (that don't currently exist). *OR* create a better system. More to think on....
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Old 07-11-2013, 23:18   #8
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

Your reefing lines are too short for single line reefing. Wouldn't recommend it in any case. If these are the tack reefing lines in double line reefing, your second reef point is probably too short. Just guessing 7' per slab, the second tack reef point would have to be 28' just to from boom to reef cringe back to boom. You'd still have to get the lines to the deck, back to the cockpit and 5' or so for a little extra.


Double line reefing works great. Would use double braid dacron, at least 7/16" for the clew lines. A good area to have a rope with some stretch to take shock loads.

Would not go with Nylon for the mainsheet, just way too much stretch that's not needed. Double braid will have some give yet not stretch out of reason that nylon would.

Think I'd want some stretch in spinnaker halyards because of the shock load when they collapse and fill. Another place for good old double braid dacron
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:29   #9
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

I recently, within the last 6 months, ran all my lines to the cockpit. My headsail and staysail are on furling so those halyards I left in place. I have single line reefing for 2 reefs (will install the 3rd soon) and it works great. I did upgrade my winches in the cockpit (on the cabin top) and made sure I used good blocks where I had a turn. After 6 months of use, in everything from 5kts of wind to 30kts, it has all worked perfectly.

I can't speak for the line types. I have a good cruising boat so I don't really fret over an inch or two of stretch. Stayset is what I've used on most lines and they work well for me. My sails are tight (halyard wise) and the main is easy to control as are the reef lines. But that's me. Everyone has different requirements. I also have a rigid vang and that line is also lead to the cockpit. Again, for me, it has worked well.

Let us know how it goes..

I did map out my lengths pretty well though. Measured and measured again. Every boat is different so I couldn't even fathom a guess on your line lengths.
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Old 18-11-2013, 14:53   #10
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Re: Running Rigging Thoughts

Thanks for all the feed back. The lengths are guidelines for budgeting the project, not for cutting at the store!
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