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Old 18-07-2014, 13:22   #46
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

a couple thoughts: the fewer welds the better or no... it's not going to last very long. Also keep in mind a bar within a tube is more flexible than a solid bar. (think like a leaf spring... the metal is in layers instead of solid so it will flex readily.) This may not matter on your rudder. Reusing the top and bottom by welding is still a tempory fix in my mind. May last along time, may corrode very quickly. who knows?
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Old 18-07-2014, 15:01   #47
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

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thank you for the advice. So instead of trying to sail with a jury rigged rudder I had the rudder transported off this island (no road access, no lift-out facilities). Rudder is being professionally rebuilt by a boat yard. This is what they have done, attached a solid piece inside a similar hollow metal tube and apparently re-used the top and bottom part. Is this going to last?
Kudos for the effort... At least the presentation looks good... I've definitely seen much worse... So if I'm understanding this correctly, they added a length of tube stock between the fractured pieces, and welded a solid bar inside all 3 pieces??? I would have definitely been better to have used the new tube stock and machine it down to the original profile... I guess it all depends on the quality of the weld penetration, and materials used... Keeping the water out of the interface and blade...

I think we would all feel a little better if you told us the boat was a 28', 10k lb daysailor... But clearly it ain't...

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
a couple thoughts: the fewer welds the better or no... it's not going to last very long. Also keep in mind a bar within a tube is more flexible than a solid bar. (think like a leaf spring... the metal is in layers instead of solid so it will flex readily.) This may not matter on your rudder. Reusing the top and bottom by welding is still a tempory fix in my mind. May last along time, may corrode very quickly. who knows?
That's the $64,000 question...
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Old 18-07-2014, 15:42   #48
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

If you are using any of the original rudder stock you really can't call it a new rudder - still basically jury rigged. I see lots of welding there. On old material that has already proven to be deficient - welding may well give you a false sense of security. Who knows what crevasse corrosion lurks in the old tube?

When you get back to civilization, have a new rudder built with a solid marine type stainless steel shaft - not tubing. Austenitic Nitronic 50 is used in marine shaft applications. There are others - google is a wonderful thing.

When out and about there are many important systems on your boat. Having reliable steering and ground tackle are utmost on the list, IMO.
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Old 18-07-2014, 17:27   #49
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
...
I would have definitely been better to have used the new tube stock and machine it down to the original profile... I guess it all depends on the quality of the weld penetration, and materials used... Keeping the water out of the interface and blade...
If you still have the rudder in pieces, grab a piece of solid shafting, machine it and use this to make a rudder stock, you are 95% there! Otherwise you will have to redo it all over again.

Stainless tube has no place in a rudder stock, new or repaired, and adding a solid piece in the middle doesn't make it any more suitable.
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Old 19-07-2014, 06:36   #50
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

From the picture it certainly looks like they've done this before, so that at least adds confidence.

That being said....A proper weld with a stub inside could conceivably be stronger than the original tube. The weld joining the lower and upper half doesn't appear to be that weld; with 3/4" wall thickness, the weld should be 1 to 1.5" wide (depending on the chamfered angle) and consist of multiple passes, there also must be zero porosity and the filler metal should be appropriate for all metals used in the repair. Some type of heat treatment or stress relief or controlled cooling might also be required to prevent brittleness or annealing.

The armature end looks pretty well made, I'm assuming that is original? Are they planning on moving it up from it's original position in the rudder? The reason I ask is that there doesn't appear to be a spacer added into the shaft to take the place of the material ground out to make the weld; do you have variability in the distance from the top of the shaft to the top of the rudder?

And finally, make sure they use epoxy (not polyester) resin when they reglass the rudder, and high density closed cell foam when they refill it.

If you aren't sure about the weld, as suggested in other posts above you should treat this as temporary and eventually replace the shaft and armature with a solid one. The repair could last the life of the boat, it might not last 6 months.

P.S.
Just thinking, I assume you're diving the rudder to reinstall it, make absolutely sure that no water can get inside the shaft, if that happens crevice corrosion will destroy it in short order from within.
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Old 19-07-2014, 09:59   #51
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

If I remember right, it appears the top of the shaft is tapered...? and that is the machining issue I imagine. Would you be better off/cheaper to have a non tapered shaft and buy a new tiller fitting?
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Old 19-07-2014, 10:10   #52
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
If I remember right, it appears the top of the shaft is tapered...? and that is the machining issue I imagine. Would you be better off/cheaper to have a non tapered shaft and buy a new tiller fitting?
Aww man... There ya go!

Glass in a new upper bearing/collar and fix it right when ya got home!

Good one Cheech... to be sure...
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:08   #53
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

Has anyone heard from or know how stara is making out?
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Old 11-08-2014, 15:14   #54
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Re: Rudder Stock Failure

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Has anyone heard from or know how stara is making out?
All the info/story I know comes from this thread Frz-Man...

Lotsa good boatside effort, Lotsa good info, Lotsa good ideas...
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