Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-01-2015, 13:51   #46
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Good one, Stu. Did you see the pics of the packing removing tool kits minaret has? Wow!


Just so ya know Anne, packing pullers cost about two bucks. Nothing special. Prolly cheaper than a dental pic.
__________________

__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 02:57   #47
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

I don't know (re; dental/medical tools), some of those items look pretty handy to have. Like forceps (?) for example, AKA ultra thinly profiled pliers which have a locking grip. They could come in handy for extracting any stubborn bits stuck way down in there. And stuff like that's cheap on Ebay. I have some myself.
__________________

__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 04:21   #48
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Heat is your friend. Just use your logic and concentrate on heating the part which needs to expand more than anything else. I much prefer MAPP gas to propane. Buy the yellow torch canister, not the blue. Burns much hotter. 2000 degrees hotter. Heat parts until spit sizzles on it and no more, this way you won't damage anything. If it glows you went too far. I use a ton of MAPP, provides quick results.
.......
I endorse Minaret's recommendation of MAPP gas

Be cautious however in using it in confined spaces; it generates a lot of carbon monoxide.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 05:46   #49
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,045
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

I've gotten several hemostats and even scalpels, dental picks etc. for almost nothing on Fleabay, just got a "red handled scalpel" last week, paid $2 and it came with 10 new blades
Scalpel Handle 6 with Red Color 10 Surgical Blade 12 Dental Instruments | eBay

I don't know how they can do that, but they do
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 05:56   #50
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,421
Images: 2
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

A benefit of Minaret's packing puller is that the shaft is flexible, allowing it to be used where there's little room to maneuver. You can get one from Hamilton Marine:

PACKING EXTRACTING TOOL #0 746184

They're inexpensive and they come in different sizes for different sized glands.
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 08:58   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Ok. Still leaks like hell. Sigh.
So. Some ideas.

the aluminium is just eaten away around the bolts, you can see the gobs of powder in this photo. So beating the hell outta it should be my first attempt once hauled..? Couldn't hurt aye?
I like cutting away the quadrant halves too, seem easier to do, then get it out of the compartment and take it to a machine shop to deal with.


Wait. Before I go further. Question. The hose that connects the rudder post( fiberglass flange that comes up from the hull surrounding the rudder) to the south side packing gland. That hose, it I remove the hose clamps and cut away the hose. Will the gland be able to drop down? Can I get clearance south of the gland instead of north? I can design a boot that can work as good as that hose, and I can put it on with rudder in place.
Please please say yes.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	93.8 KB
ID:	95207  
__________________
Mrs. Rain Dog~Ocean Girl
https://raindogps34.wordpress.com
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 09:14   #52
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,045
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Ok. Still leaks like hell. Sigh.
So. Some ideas.

the aluminium is just eaten away around the bolts, you can see the gobs of powder in this photo. So beating the hell outta it should be my first attempt once hauled..? Couldn't hurt aye?
I like cutting away the quadrant halves too, seem easier to do, then get it out of the compartment and take it to a machine shop to deal with.

I think some "impact adjustments" along with soaking for long periods with penetrate and heat every now and again can certainly help, yes you can cut the two halves apart, but unless I miss my guess it looks as if the bolts pass through one half and are threaded into the other half. If so just wring the heads off and separate the halves, then have a machine shop drill out remains and use bolts that pass all the way through both halves and have a nut.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 09:26   #53
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

I think the quadrant is ok regarding corrosión, that White poder is quite normal, maybe you have some pitting but thats all, looks healty, regarding to cut the hose to gain space at the top, beware, if the south side of the gland is close to the Fg tube you dont gain nothing cutting the hose, squeze with your fingers at the hose looking for a wide gap between the bottom of the gland and the top of the tube ,


And you have a nice small gap in the 2 halves to slide maybe a dremel to cut the bolt, dont be afraid to use the right brute forcé in the quadrant , dremel or grinder to cut the bolt my 2 cents...
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 09:55   #54
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Yes, tonight at anchor, I'll crawl my bruised body back there and see if I can feel the hose, Id only need a couple inches Id think. That way would be less complicated. And we could keep cruising towards warmer waters ( 38 deg F!!!)
We plan to convert to tiller, so this siezed bolt that holds our steering system together will be taken care of. But we did not plan on converting till next hurricane season.
So I'm going to pursue this avenue. Empericus ( cool blog about a sailboat up in the Arctic) had a write up about making a rudder boot( not sure that's the right word). He sewed it on. I have laminated vinyl 18 oz with the laminate 33 glue. That will make a water tight boot. I also have a 12"x12 of pvc dinghy repair material and 12x12 Hypalon repair material. So I've got a lot of options for a new boot. The vinyl would be my first choice. But I guess Im getting ahead of myself. First see if this is feasible.

Thanks for the great advice!!
Erika
__________________
Mrs. Rain Dog~Ocean Girl
https://raindogps34.wordpress.com
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 11:08   #55
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Never heard a confirmation... Are those thru bolts? I'd try the heat first.


If thru bolts, just take a big breaker bar and socket and break the bolts. After that It's likely you can drive something between the halves and start separating it.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 18:45   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Never heard a confirmation... Are those thru bolts? I'd try the heat first.


If thru bolts, just take a big breaker bar and socket and break the bolts. After that It's likely you can drive something between the halves and start separating it.
The two bottom quadrant bolts are not through bolts, the top three quadrant bolts are. I can not see fitting a big breaker bar in the space. As it stands now, I can swing my small hammer back about 3-4 inches before taking a whack. Lame.

Looking at the rudder boot/gaiter/hose thing that sits below the gland, it is to far below waterline for me to tinker with. I thought to put some weight at the bow, but it's more then a couple inches below waterline. So gotta haul out. We will clear industrial locks tomorrow and will haul out at the yard just north of it.
Thanks for the help.
Erika
__________________
Mrs. Rain Dog~Ocean Girl
https://raindogps34.wordpress.com
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 20:25   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Good Luck. Looks like an awful job but must be done. Maybe time to hire a pro?
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 23:20   #58
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Sometimes this is the answer, Porta Power.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008GE...110_SY165_QL70
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 01:04   #59
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Hi Erika,
Sorry that this job is so frustrating. I hope Mr. Rain-Dog is providing you with proper support for your troubles.

Anyway, given the new pics & an idea which I had yesterday... Do you think that there's room in there to use a Sawzall sawzall - Bing Images= to slip it's blade in between the quadrant halves, & make quick work of the bolts?
If one will fit in there, then it seems like the way to go, IMO. The only catch being that it's wielder would have to be REAL careful not to accidentally made some big Fugly marks in the quadrant.
And if not a sawzall, then perhaps another type of saw which temporarily can be jury rigged with a metal cutting blade.

Or, as a wild ass idea, you could put a few drops of liquid nitrogen onto the bolt heads. At which point it'd take something as powerful as say, a tack hammer, to "remove" the heads at that point.
Albeit, working with said substance in that kind of confined area could be hazardous, to say the least. But a few blasts with Loctite Freeze-n-Release, at -40 degrees, on the bolt heads, prior to trying to smash them might be an option. Just shield/insulate the quadrant itself, before applying the "cold in a can".

And likely this should have occurred to one of us (forumites) before, but would say a yoga mat, or backpacking sleep mat, make working back in there a bit more tolerable?

Aside from those ideas, as mentioned by another member on here, it may be time to call in a local professional (or even get a hold of Nigel Calder himself, because, as of last check, he had a heavily customized Crealock 40 himself). That, & or talk to Pacific Seacraft, live. Post weekend that is.

One parting thought. Even though you're planning to switch to a tiller, if you can keep the quadrant essentially undamaged, it can always be used with a belowdecks autopilot.

PS: Not that you'd want to, but pulling the likely 1.5t +, of gear off of the boat would probably raise her up a good 4" - 6".
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 05:37   #60
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,421
Images: 2
Re: Rudder Packing Gland to Steering Quadrant Leak

Erica,
Before you resort to flaming torches, liquid nitrogen, sawzalls, and other exotic methods, try an impact wrench. They really work wonders on frozen fasteners. Electric ones are not that expensive (and you may be able to borrow one) and they are quite safe to use on the hard in a dry space.
Z.
__________________

__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
packing gland, rudder, steering

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rudder shaft packing gland joker4142 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 11-04-2012 05:53
Leaking rudder post with no packing gland surfmachine Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 20-03-2011 20:31
Packing (Stern) Gland - How Tight Is Too Tight ? sneuman Construction, Maintenance & Refit 23 26-08-2010 18:11
Corrosion on Rudder Post Above the Packing Gland Tom Foley Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 25-04-2010 17:31
Overheating packing gland - what should I do ? ribbony Propellers & Drive Systems 25 22-04-2008 14:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.