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Old 20-11-2013, 12:44   #436
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Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post

To take this thought one step further we must further qualify your statement with the note that not all are created this way. There were, are, manufacturers that put more into their products than what the price warrents, owners worked towards making the best of the best and often succeeded. These manufacturers often went belly up but there products didn't, they stay in demand for decades, and then some. Boats like westsail, Downeast, etc.
The trick is figuring out who among the flock of current manufacturers that are making the best of the best.
You cannot seek the " best of the best " because everything is a compromise and everything has to be benchmarked to the price you are willing ( or able ) to pay.

First you have to decide what's " best". That's a very subjective issue. For example in rudders I would say spade is best because its gives the best control and performance 99.9999999% of the time the 0.0000001% its falls off is an acceptable risk. Others may differ. There is no absolute standard.


The fact that a west sail is in demand 2nd hand is no real indication of " best". Most 2nd hand Beneteaus are sought after too.


Searching for absolute best of best is a fools errand.

Dave
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Old 20-11-2013, 13:15   #437
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Geeez Dave now you are using some numbers that don't seem supportable, do you have back up for your stats??
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Old 20-11-2013, 13:39   #438
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

I have to laugh at those that are going to pick a boat just because of a rudder.
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Old 20-11-2013, 13:41   #439
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I have to laugh at those that are going to pick a boat just because of a rudder.
Better than how many it sleeps though.

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Old 20-11-2013, 13:43   #440
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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I have to laugh at those that are going to pick a boat just because of a rudder.
Actually, I think the question is whether to not pick a boat because of its potential unexpected lack of a rudder.
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Old 20-11-2013, 13:55   #441
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Actually, I think the question is whether to not pick a boat because of its potential unexpected lack of a rudder.
No the question is whether you would just go ahead and replace the rudder with a different one with a stronger shaft if you are that worried.

But there are so many more likely to happen things. Lets focus our fears on things MUCH more likely to happen to go bad, like our car tires for example!
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Old 20-11-2013, 14:09   #442
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
You cannot seek the " best of the best " because everything is a compromise and everything has to be benchmarked to the price you are willing ( or able ) to pay.

First you have to decide what's " best". That's a very subjective issue. For example in rudders I would say spade is best because its gives the best control and performance 99.9999999% of the time the 0.0000001% its falls off is an acceptable risk. Others may differ. There is no absolute standard.


The fact that a west sail is in demand 2nd hand is no real indication of " best". Most 2nd hand Beneteaus are sought after too.


Searching for absolute best of best is a fools errand.

Dave
I can see your one of those, "that's good enough" kind of people. Hey the wheels are staying on so that's good enough. Me, I have always worked to make things the best that I can and when done the next project I will work to make it even better.. To strive for perfection my friend is not a fools errand its the ethic that has provided us with so many cool toys. With your ethic we would have been satisfied with a wooden cart to haul our beer. It works right? So why should we bother to make it better, at least that is what you believe. But I'm happy to say history proves your is not subscribed to by all and that there are some like me that are never satisfied always wanting to make things better.
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Old 20-11-2013, 14:55   #443
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Its not the rudder, but if anything is protecting the rudder from impact .I'll put my money on a full keel/protected prop with emergency tiller steering .
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Old 20-11-2013, 15:21   #444
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We put our money into 2 rudders. Redundancy is another alternative to protecting just one rudder.
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Old 20-11-2013, 15:50   #445
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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To strive for perfection my friend is not a fools errand its the ethic that has provided us with so many cool toys.
unless you have unlimited budget, everything is a compromise. just because it glitters its not gold. Perfection is the enemy of good, perfection never ships product. Don't get marketing messages mixed up with engineering.


Take Beneteau, and say compare to say Oyster

beneteau has to build to a particular price, but because it sells large volumes it can afford expensive automated systems that Oyster cannot.

Hence euro for euro, you will get better value for your boat it is a Beneteau. that is you will get more boat ( note you will not get the same boat) , then if you spent the same money with Oyster, where in fact the same money will only buy you 1/3 of a boat,

WHat determines the selling price, obviously cost of goods, labour and then a market determination. To perceive it to be a luxury item, it must sell at a luxury price. If Oyster halved its prices in the morning , the perception would be they "cut quality"

Hence cause I buy a 35 boat for 100,000 and you buy one for 250,000 does not mean you are getting anything like 2.5 times the quality , in fact you may be paying for more GP margin in one case and higher labour, hence the cherry will be beautiful , but the basic boat may not be that different.

Dave
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:27   #446
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

So glad you have your rudder. Good luck with the prep. and installation. I'm looking forward to hearing how it all goes.
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:53   #447
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

This thread, then the Salty Dog casualties, and my fear of our upcoming Atlantic crossing, finally convinced me to get off my lazy butt last week and make an emergency rudder.





Massive backing plates tied to a bulkhead are behind all mounts. The tubing used is schedule 40 304 stainless, and the pin is solid 1". I still need to build the rudder, but that wont be too hard once I locate some proper foam coring.


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Old 20-11-2013, 16:56   #448
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Bluewaters,

Great news that you have the rudder now! Let us know how it goes when you have time.

Ann
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:59   #449
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Whoohoo, we have our rudder ... sans drilled hole, but it is in our possession, having arrived half an hour ago. Now to start the process of cleaning, sanding, priming and anti-fouling. At least the light can be seen at the end of the tunnel now. "It's like an early Christmas present" said the Admiral, as she watched me unwrap it. So true.
Thats the best news in this thread!
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Old 20-11-2013, 17:41   #450
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Bluewaters,

Great news that you have the rudder now! Let us know how it goes when you have time.

Ann
Thanks Ann, have now also just arranged for the diver to come and fit the rudder tomorrow midday. At last, everything is coming together. I notice there has been some recent thread drift haha, but thanks to all of you who provided moral support and good wishes as well as some very useful information. Always appreciated. Boy, we're having a drink to celebrate at the moment (I hope it's not premature because people would hate to see a grown man cry lol).
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