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Old 27-10-2013, 09:15   #226
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Bluewater2812

At least you are safe.

Is Rudder so easy to break these day. There was another race boat that had a broken rudder while race to vietnam. And send out distress call n eprib.
And finally the crew pick up by rescues helicopter .

Even if u have a spare rudder , can one put it back in ! Just wonder.


Cheers.
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Old 27-10-2013, 09:32   #227
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Spade rudders are just bad news.The reason they are popular is because they are cheaper, easier to make, and they are faster.They back up better,but I would rather sacrifice backing over durability.Better to spread the load I would think,especially offshore.I have friends that have crossed oceans with spade,but I would not feel safe.If rudder falls right off there is good chance windvane rudder would not be effective steering alone.
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Old 27-10-2013, 09:40   #228
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

I disagree, I think spade rudders are the most effective rudder you can have in all conditions however if using a boat for continuous offshore use they need to be built properly/overbuilt...which means they probably shouldn't be built by low cost production boat builders. Its not the design its the quality of production.
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Old 27-10-2013, 09:53   #229
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Spade rudders are just bad news.The reason they are popular is because they are cheaper, easier to make, and they are faster.They back up better,but I would rather sacrifice backing over durability..

In other words they steer better. But who expects good steering from a rudder

1,000s and 1,000s of spade rudder boats out there steering just fine compared to a dozen or so failures. Lets stop being such a bunch of scared armchair admirals.
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Old 27-10-2013, 10:01   #230
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Titanium is really expensive, is not just the shaft, the armature inside of the rudder to, and really strong, in terms of corrosion its the best stuff talking about alloys, but in case of a collision not sure , you prefer to loose your rudder or loose a part of the hull,, lol... i guess the best spade rudder is made with the best corrosion resistance material at the stock and sacrificial at the bottom in case of collision.
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Old 27-10-2013, 10:03   #231
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
In other words they steer better. But who expects good steering from a rudder

1,000s and 1,000s of spade rudder boats out there steering just fine compared to a dozen or so failures. Lets stop being such a bunch of scared armchair admirals.

A dozen! Lol! Just in the respondents to this thread alone there are several.
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Old 27-10-2013, 10:04   #232
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

As rough as i am on my cars ,planes,toys ,my boat,just about everything, I would not feel safe with this type of setup,If I were out sailing in the open ocean I would want a rudder that is held with at least 2 hard contact points and would rather have a keel attachment than a skeg..
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Old 27-10-2013, 10:27   #233
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Titanium is really expensive, is not just the shaft, the armature inside of the rudder to, and really strong, in terms of corrosion its the best stuff talking about alloys, but in case of a collision not sure , you prefer to loose your rudder or loose a part of the hull,, lol... i guess the best spade rudder is made with the best corrosion resistance material at the stock and sacrificial at the bottom in case of collision.

Not anymore. Doesn't cost much more than some of the rare breeds of steel which have been mentioned. Finding someone who can do it is another matter...
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Old 27-10-2013, 10:28   #234
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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A dozen! Lol! Just in the respondents to this thread alone there are several.
i am currently waiting on a new spade rudder to be delivered for a boat that had its rudder fall off in june!

then i can go and deliver the yacht to europe!
happens more often than you think
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Old 27-10-2013, 11:04   #235
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

I really wonder anymore why more manufacutrers dont go to two "less deep" rudders. Just set apart a couple feet off centerline and vertical rather than the fancy outboard style seen on fast racers. Alot less stress on the rudder if it's half as long... less at risk in a grounding too... redundency etc. I suppose it's more costly....
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Old 27-10-2013, 11:24   #236
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Interesting points but as individual points, they sum up like the three blind men describing an elephant. (Not quite what it really is.)

Hunter had composite rudder failures? OK, Their owner himself was rather upset when he lost the conventionally bolted on KEEL on Thursday's Child, vaguely around 1990. Hunter may have made a financial decision, been unable to find a supplier, many things could have made their decision. I don't fault Hunter for "building to a price", either.

leftbrain makes a point that a solid post will bend while a cf tube will snap. Except, Zanshin had a solid stainless rudder shaft which also neatly snapped from the inevitable crevice corrosion. So much for solid posts. The reason our masts are tubes, not solid rods, is because a tube can indeed be designed to exceed all loads that may be placed on it. And in the case of composites, it doesn't cost any more to build a heavy wall tube as opposed to a post. All else being equal, a wide tube will exceed the strengths of a narrower post. The tube can always be engineered to perform adequately.

Titanium is still something most fab shops run away from, with good reason. Working with it literally consumes tools. Frightens accountants. And figuring out how to weld the armature to it, finding a competent Ti welder, and then bonding the rudder shell to it...I think it might be cheaper to just offer the customers a new conventional rudder every tenth year. (G)

Dashew's boats are, like Hunter's, "built to a price". A substantially larger price and smaller audience, last I heard. Ain't gonna trickle down so easily.

How about a 3D printer, using metal powders, to make a "honeycomb" rudder post to the necessary length? That could be a nice "price is no object" project.
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Old 27-10-2013, 15:54   #237
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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How long have you owned the boat? I'm wondering if a previous owner hadn't of smacked her tail on something
I am trying to gather more info on the history of the boat. Going through docs we have on board in the hope of finding something out.
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Old 27-10-2013, 15:56   #238
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I...... How about a 3D printer, using metal powders, to make a "honeycomb" rudder post to the necessary length? That could be a nice "price is no object" project.
Now that is an interesting thought ... I wonder whether an emergency rudder can be done with 3d printing?
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Old 27-10-2013, 16:14   #239
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

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Now that is an interesting thought ... I wonder whether an emergency rudder can be done with 3d printing?
be quicker to make one out of modelling clay and take a mold off it!
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Old 27-10-2013, 17:48   #240
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Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Where's PooBeetle when you need him??
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