Rudder nightmare at sea

[Bluewaters2812]

Folks, I have just rigged up a fishing net under the boat and dropped the rudder post out. It fell perfectly ionto the net and I easily retrieved it. Now ... the mystery begins. Was I "shafted" by the previous owner? We own a Beneteau Oceanis 50 hull number 80, so part of the hull number is 5080 (I think the 50 stands for the length of boast and the hull number for the year is no 80. I have found the following written/engraved on the rudder post: "cyclade5088"

Our hull number is 5080, not 5088 and we do not have a Cyclades. I will have to show it to the rep. Anyone of our good fellow sailors that can shed some light for me perhaps?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Folks, I have just rigged up a fishing net under the boat and dropped the rudder post out. It fell perfectly ionto the net and I easily retrieved it. Now ... the mystery begins. Was I "shafted" by the previous owner? We own a Beneteau Oceanis 50 hull number 80, so part of the hull number is 5080 (I think the 50 stands for the length of boast and the hull number for the year is no 80. I have found the following written/engraved on the rudder post: "cyclade5088"

Our hull number is 5080, not 5088 and we do not have a Cyclades. I will have to show it to the rep. Anyone of our good fellow sailors that can shed some light for me perhaps?

these boats are built on a production line,could be yours was ready for its rudder before hull #88 at the other end of the line!

not sure but if the hulls are the same,only the layout is different between a cyclades and a charter version?

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

I agree, unfortunately the bucket we had was too weak. We have searched for a heavy duty old style bucket but have not found one yet.

Oh boy, I dread what might come from this bucket talk ... no, please not here folks!

Next time try full jerry jugs as drogues.

Hang in there, and learn to enjoy the French culture.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by atoll

these boats are built on a production line,could be yours was ready for its rudder before hull #88 at the other end of the line!

not sure but if the hulls are the same,only the layout is different between a cyclades and a charter version?

Ours is an Oceanis and is not a charter version, its the owner's version. I will check on the Cyclades but my impression is that they do not have the same finish as the Oceanis. I will try and investigate further and will show the rudder post to the rep on Monday. In the meantime I will do some internet trawling and investigation lol.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by atoll

have you thought about how you are going to seal up the hole left by the shaft once you remove it,if you end up towing the boat you will have a lot of water spurting up there.

it might be better to wait till you lift the boat,and instead make a free standing rudder/rudders that will bolt to the transom. on a frame.

making a temporary rudder to fit in the hole will be costly and time consuming imo.

Thanks, just seen your post here. What I did was use an orange rubber cone bung (that you get from Budget Marine etc). It fits perfectly. Then took a block of wood and clamped it over the top of the bung so that if any water tries to force its way up it will not dislodge the bung. If you can think of anything else, thanks mate, just let me know.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

" I mean there are plenty of old Taiwan built cruising boats around that were built in the 80's with no failres yet. I would imagine the shafts are some type of 304-ish SS.... am I missing something....?"

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Give 'em all ten thousand days at sea in heavy wx and you might see a nice uniform 100% failure rate. (Ten thousand, two thousand, fifty thousand, pick a number, any number.)

I know someone who picked up six nails and got six flat tires in three years. I know someone else who has had only one flat in 25+ years. Does it mean something? Sure, one of them has just had better luck. All tires are vulnerable to nails, all rudder stocks are vulnerable to failure modes. Boats of different pedigrees, built or overbuilt by knowing designers or overzealous accountants, built maybe when steel was cheaper...There could be all sorts of reasons why it *seems* like so many boats from a certain time and place are doing better or worse than others. Could be the buyers do their sailing differently, too.

Plenty of stuff to miss.

These boats are out there and have been forever. (The whole CT line, Passports, Tayanas, Baba's etc) However, as mentioned, many are full keel or skeg hung. On a spade rudder, a SS solid shaft should very rarely break, but could bend for sure. It should be bendable even 90 degrees. Try that with composite. It's like comparing a steel boat with a glass one..... that's all i'm sayin'...

[Bluewaters2812]

I have taken some pics of the snapped rudder post folks. I welcome any input on what you see.

Hope I have got it right to attach the pics?

[Cheechako]

Looks like they layed it up over a wood dowel. It looks quite light in color... is it just fiberglass or supposed to be something more exotic? How big in daimeter would you say that is?

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Looks like they layed it up over a wood dowel. It looks quite light in color... is it just fiberglass or supposed to be something more exotic? How big in daimeter would you say that is?

Its entirely some sort of composite, top end 82mm diameter, where it snapped off about 130mm diameter. The inner core seems to be some sort of foam.

[Tx J]

Good luck and best wishes, you're both OK and you still have 99% of the boat... :]
That damage looks like it was progressing over a period of time to me.
Thanks for writing about this incident too, lots of good advice.
You've convinced me (along with some other CF threads) to put constructing a backup/emergency rudder on the to-do list.
I think it will be fairly easy on my boat as the transom is straight and vertical, a plain tillered pintle&gudgeon hung rudder shouldn't be too difficult to do. Or I have some ideas for something even easier to rig under less than ideal sea conditions (using different diameter pipes).

Not to hijack the thread, but does an 'emergency' rudder have to be on the boat centerline? It would surely work, albeit a little squirrely handling, if offset from the center of the transom?

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by Tx J

Good luck and best wishes, you're both OK and you still have 99% of the boat... :]
That damage looks like it was progressing over a period of time to me.
Thanks for writing about this incident too, lots of good advice.
You've convinced me (along with some other CF threads) to put constructing a backup/emergency rudder on the to-do list.
I think it will be fairly easy on my boat as the transom is straight and vertical, a plain tillered pintle&gudgeon hung rudder shouldn't be too difficult to do. Or I have some ideas for something even easier to rig under less than ideal sea conditions (using different diameter pipes).

Not to hijack the thread, but does an 'emergency' rudder have to be on the boat centerline? It would surely work, albeit a little squirrely handling, if offset from the center of the transom?

Thanks for the good wishes. I wouldn't think it has to be centreline. I am sure that an emergency rudder mounted off-centre will work fine and give you more than adequate steerage. I have been given advice in emergencies to even lash a dinghy to the side of the boat with about 1/3 protruding past the transom. Apparently this will give good steering but I doubt it will work in rough conditions. One day I will try it when I have less to do and we are in flat calm seas.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Its entirely some sort of composite, top end 82mm diameter, where it snapped off about 130mm diameter. The inner core seems to be some sort of foam.

Wow, so almost 5.25 inch diameter where it snapped. I wonder if it was damaged by grounding in charter long ago?

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Wow, so almost 5.25 inch diameter where it snapped. I wonder if it was damaged by grounding in charter long ago?

This boat is an owner's version and has never been chartered. We are the 3rd owners but I am suspecting that either the 1st owner or the one we bought from is not saying anything about maybe reversing into something and rep[lacing the rudder with a different Beneteau model's rudder (Cyclades). I am going to try and investigate further and will def post here should I find anything. Its only 6 years old being a 2007 model, that rudder post looks older to me. Time will hopefully shed more light for us. Taking no chances and going to put in an original as soon as we can. Our boat is in great shape and I don't want any shortcuts, except as an emergency. We are desperate to get out of here.

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

This boat is an owner's version and has never been chartered. We are the 3rd owners but I am suspecting that either the 1st owner or the one we bought from is not saying anything about maybe reversing into something and rep[lacing the rudder with a different Beneteau model's rudder (Cyclades). I am going to try and investigate further and will def post here should I find anything. Its only 6 years old being a 2007 model, that rudder post looks older to me. Time will hopefully shed more light for us. Taking no chances and going to put in an original as soon as we can. Our boat is in great shape and I don't want any shortcuts, except as an emergency. We are desperate to get out of here.

(Just to lighten things up a bit)
Sooner or later all our 'cruising kitties' take a hit:


(pic lifted long ago from somewhere on the innertoobz; that kitty was shot by some a$$hole, and then rescued, pic taken before surgery at the vets)

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by Tx J

(Just to lighten things up a bit)
Sooner or later all our 'cruising kitties' take a hit:


(pic lifted long ago from somewhere on the innertoobz; that kitty was shot by some a$$hole, and then rescued, pic taken before surgery at the vets)

Tks, a bit of humour helps, sorry about the kitty though. I hope the a-hole got/gets his just rewards! I'm not a kitty lover but I am an animal lover (dogs especially), how anyone could do that just blows one's mind.