Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-08-2010, 19:31   #1
Registered User
 
Freerider's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: 1979 Hughes 35
Posts: 219
Rudder Inspection w/ Pics

I've had my boat hauled to my farm to do some work and after being out of the water I've noticed what looks like rust streaks running down my rudder, I've heard of this before but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Is this a sign of a serious problem must be addressed before next launch, or just something to keep an eye on that will eventually need to be looked after.

I've never inspected a rudder post before, how big of a job is this?

(pics are from a blackberry, bad quality)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00019.jpg
Views:	233
Size:	428.2 KB
ID:	18552   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00016.jpg
Views:	272
Size:	420.4 KB
ID:	18553  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00018.jpg
Views:	230
Size:	414.1 KB
ID:	18554   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00017.jpg
Views:	214
Size:	409.0 KB
ID:	18555  

__________________

__________________
Freerider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2010, 19:43   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Hard to tell by the pictures but it looks like there has been some damage to a plate that is visible in pictures #2 and #3. I think you need to have some qualified person take a close look at it.

If it was my boat the rudder would be coming off for a very thorough inspection.
__________________

__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2010, 02:26   #3
PAR
Registered User
 
PAR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eustis, FL
Boat: 1960 Chris Craft, 1957 Clyde, 1961 Atkins, 1986 Macgregor 65, plus three of my own design and build
Posts: 239
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to PAR
That rudder has been backed into something and things have moved a little. What and how much, you will not know until you unship the rudder.
__________________
PAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2010, 05:52   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Boat: Seafarer 30 Impetuous
Posts: 426
Images: 45
I would remove all bottom paint from around the pintle and gudgeon, as there coule be cracks that are not easily seen through the paint.

As well, I would drill a couple of holes in the bottom of the rudder, near the lowest point, o see if any water comes out.
Do not drill in the thinnest part, as it may be solid glass, but back a few inches, and make sure you frill into something soft, after an inch or so of glass. some foam (wet or dry) may come out with the drill bit.

These holes can be easily filled with epoxy and sealed / faired if no water comes out.

If more than a bit of water comes out, or if the pintle / gudgon brackets shows any signs of wear, and depending on the age of the boat, I would consider removing it and performimg any necessary work like
- open up rudder to rebuild / strengthen the stainless internal rudder post and framework
- repair or replace pintle / gudgeon
- seal and cracks / leaks around rudder post entry point


You can see pics of my rudder repair in the gallery. It feels god to know your rudder has been checked and beefed up, on the inside, instead of wondering if it will be Ok for the next few years!
__________________
Northeaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2010, 06:15   #5
Registered User
 
lat 045's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1
dosen't look like rust , more like dried epoxy, anyhoo that's a bronze 'shoe' casting plate thru the skeg , 2 halves clam and hold the rudder's shaft. this boat is more prone to issues at the 'top' of the rudder where hughes never used a proper stuffing entrance etc.
e-mail me if u want info/pics etc.
__________________
lat 045 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2010, 12:25   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
lat 045, the idea is to share that info on the forum so that we all learn from it.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2010, 15:40   #7
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
OK, Just a guess here, my thinking is that the rudder may be a wood core, your attachment points (Gudgeons) are areas of high stressing an as such are prone to cracking. Wood when it gets wet will bleed brown streaks (Tanic acid ?). If the core has become superstaurated all the way up to the top of the rudder and you have cracks in the rudder at the lower gudgeon you can have hydrostatic pressure pushing water out after the boat was hauled, that may account for the one streak that is running towards the aft of the rudder. As one of the previous posters has indicated a couple of test holes with a drill bit just deep enough to get into the core may tell you alot. Another thing would be to get with other owners of this make an model of boat, if there is an owners association to find out if this a problem inherant to this boat.
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2010, 18:21   #8
Registered User
 
captain465's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Boat: 38ft Irwin center cockpit sloop MERIDIAN
Posts: 619
I agree with PAR, in that the rudder has been backed into something. There is damage to the rudder above the attachment plate( a small triangular section of the rudder looks like it has been knocked off). The plate at the top of the attachment point is very obviously bent. It has been pushed back into the "deadwood" and is likely cutting into it through rudder movement.(Even though the boat is glass, there is likely a wooden substructure) The brown streaks are from water that has leaked out from the area of damage. This can best bee seen in the last photo. All of the discoloration is on the hull of the boat, and not on the rudder.
Unshipping the rudder is the most sensible way of doing a thorough inspection and repair.
__________________
Do not go where the path may lead.........
go instead where there is no path........
and leave a trail.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
captain465 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 15:57   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moss Landing CA
Boat: 1969 Cal 34
Posts: 14
Cal 34 rudder repair

I took the rudder home while hauled out and noticed some problems: large blisters on the aft edge of rudder , I have ground them down to good foam question is ; can I use epoxy on the rudder foam? It seems like someone at some point used bond or some other non marine product because it seems to be still incited. Repair seems to have been attempted before. I have drilled holes in Harold places and have found good foam , a little rusty water in rudder post when tipped over.. Any help please
__________________
juanacruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2010, 07:52   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Boat: Seafarer 30 Impetuous
Posts: 426
Images: 45
Juanacruz- Is this a different boat than the original poster's boat / pics in post #1?

If so, please post some pics of your boat / rudder.

If the rudder is a 1969, and has not been opened up / inspected / repaired to your knowledge before, I would open it up to see what the condition of the welds are between the internal framework and stainless rudder post, if you have the time to do it.

If you only sail on small lakes, in warm weather, ect, a rudder breakage may not be as big of a deal. If you are on a large lake, or ocean, I would definitely open it up.

If you find the welds / framework are weak looking at all, take it to a local welder and have it "beefed up" for a hundred bucks or so, and then fill with foam and epoxy the removed side back on. Then a few coats of epoxy to watreproof the whole thing.

I paid particular attention to the entry point where the rudder post goes into the top of the rudder. (where your's is likely leaking). Once all back together, I used a wide swath of 5200 around the rudder post and the area of the rudder where it goes through, to make sure this seal would keep water out. Even though the framework is welded to the rudder post, there is some slight movement / stress between the outside rudder shell and the rudder post where is enters the shell. I think a more flexible adhesive sealant, like 5200, applied over a wide area here on both the post and the shell, will keep water out better than just a hardened coat of epoxy.
__________________
Northeaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2010, 07:55   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Juanacruz; You should start a separate thread for your rudder.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2010, 07:57   #12
Registered User
 
Freerider's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: 1979 Hughes 35
Posts: 219
I'll drill some holes tonight and see what comes out. I guess its best to pull the rudder when its on the hard, and then its one less thing to worry about.

Thanks for the info so far.
__________________
Freerider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2010, 09:40   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Living aboard and cruising
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 276
Images: 1
If you decide to coat the rudder with epoxy, I would suggest Interlux Watertite or something similar vs 3M 5200.

I have used Watertite for repairs below the waterline, including the rudder and it is easy to work with and waterproof.

You just need to make sure that any barrier coat applied is approved for use with your epoxy, or you may have adhesion problems.
__________________
CaptainBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2010, 15:57   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Boat: Seafarer 30 Impetuous
Posts: 426
Images: 45
CaptainBW - Just to clarify, I was not advocating the use of 5200 instead of epoxy or other watertight coatings on the rudder. I am suggesting that in addition to several coats of some type of epoxy or other watertight coating, I believe that a wide seal of 5200 will add protection against water coming in where there is some minor flex between the rudder skin / glass and the rudder post.

I do not believe that a hard drying watertight layer provides enough of a seal around the rudder post entry point as there will be some flex here, and the hard seal will be broken over time. A thin seal of 5200, spread over an inch or two of the rudder post and an inch or two of the top of the rudder, where they meet should provide additional protection against water getting in there. I would put this on top of (after) the other watertight layers are put on.
__________________
Northeaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2010, 17:02   #15
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeaster View Post
Juanacruz- Is this a different boat than the original poster's boat / pics in post #1?

If so, please post some pics of your boat / rudder.

If the rudder is a 1969, and has not been opened up / inspected / repaired to your knowledge before, I would open it up to see what the condition of the welds are between the internal framework and stainless rudder post, if you have the time to do it.

If you only sail on small lakes, in warm weather, ect, a rudder breakage may not be as big of a deal. If you are on a large lake, or ocean, I would definitely open it up.

If you find the welds / framework are weak looking at all, take it to a local welder and have it "beefed up" for a hundred bucks or so, and then fill with foam and epoxy the removed side back on. Then a few coats of epoxy to watreproof the whole thing.

I paid particular attention to the entry point where the rudder post goes into the top of the rudder. (where your's is likely leaking). Once all back together, I used a wide swath of 5200 around the rudder post and the area of the rudder where it goes through, to make sure this seal would keep water out. Even though the framework is welded to the rudder post, there is some slight movement / stress between the outside rudder shell and the rudder post where is enters the shell. I think a more flexible adhesive sealant, like 5200, applied over a wide area here on both the post and the shell, will keep water out better than just a hardened coat of epoxy.
A good suggestion
__________________

__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inspection, rudder

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Checklist for Inspection AudreyK General Sailing Forum 17 21-07-2015 11:18
Rudder Inspection skipmac Construction, Maintenance & Refit 16 25-06-2010 17:39
Chainplate Inspection? BubbleHeadMd Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 22-12-2009 20:41
Pactor Modem Inspection Charlie Marine Electronics 9 23-01-2008 11:01
Injector inspection?? Wmiii Engines and Propulsion Systems 23 29-01-2007 03:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.