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Old 19-11-2015, 11:08   #31
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

Bigdog... sorry, I don't know how it was attached. John Franklin of S/Y AlShaheen (also commodore of OCC) could tell you - it was his boat. You could try talking with R&W Rope in New Bedford, MA - they make these thick ropes and may have an angle on how to attach...
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Old 19-11-2015, 11:21   #32
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

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Originally Posted by Bill Balme View Post
Bigdog... sorry, I don't know how it was attached. John Franklin of S/Y AlShaheen (also commodore of OCC) could tell you - it was his boat. You could try talking with R&W Rope in New Bedford, MA - they make these thick ropes and may have an angle on how to attach...
I see some EU boats with a length of big ship dockline draped along the sides of their boats. Looks kind of salty.
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Old 19-11-2015, 13:14   #33
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

JMK if the 44 is the same as the 37 the lower rails, as the hull to deck joint are not through bolted. What Gulfstar did for the lower was to use s.s. sheet metal self tappers. The extrusion on the lowers is two piece, butted together. Then the teak, is added, then the stainless cap. The aluminum ends are also s.s. self tap. Don't even try to put a screw gun of driver to these screws, as they are seized (forever)? If you pull out a drawer in the fwd. cabin (I think it's more or less the same, as the 37, you might be able to see the tips of the screws. I can't recall what the aft cabin looks like, but, taking out the ceiling (paneling) in a locker is not hard. Just remove the trim pieces on the sides then the angled panel, then the main panel, and the hull is in full view. If you take the teak off, to strip it you may have to move the screw holes, as the s.s. has turned the aluminum contact area to powder. Ask me how I know this. It's not hard to do just time consuming, so you don't muck things up. I've had all my ceiling, and lower head liner out. After next season I will replace the cabin top head liner.
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Old 19-11-2015, 13:41   #34
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

Shiva has a teak rub rail which is set over the (raised) deck to hull joint. The hull is not aligned at the joint... the upper deck part is proud / over the lower hull. The original rr was riveted and set on some sort of butyl or dense foam rubber "tape". The rivets were glassed over on the inside. There teak dead ends into a stainless steel receiver molding at the bow and the stern. The rivets are covered by 1/2 round ss molding,

There are no leaks at this joint.

I have had to replace parts of the rr over the years... when it split / cracked and so became unsightly to say the least. I did the work at dockside or on the hard from a scaffold.

I have also replace the entire rr on a sister ship for a boat yard. They had the boat inside and scaffolds and ordered the profiled teak from the mfg. I scarfed it and screwed it with ss screws. This CAN leak if the screws punch through the fiberglass on the interior.

The deck to hull joint likely does not depend on these rivets...they simply hold the rr on.

++++

I purchased 6 - 14' long 2"x3" planks of teak to replace the existing. I have been debating how to do this for 5 years or more... But this may be the Spring when I tackle it.

The options are:

1. Remove the existing and replace with new... milled and it would be actually a much larger finished profile. Existing profile is 1 1/4"d x 2"h Use new butyl tape or similar caulk. Fill in all existing holes with epoxy

2. Mill the existing rr in place (yikes) and profile the new 2x3 so it fits over with the old being a "key" and then screw and epoxy the new to the old. Much of the 2x3 would be removed and it would make bending it easier. Scarfing would be a challenge!

3. Mill the existing rr in place (yikes) and then cut the 2x3 into "strips" and epoxy the strips over the "core" and with minimal screws and mostly held by clamps, profile in place with a router... add the old or new ss strip.

+++

#2 and #3 will not put a 100 holes in the joint through the hull/deck fiberglass which will inevitably see water getting at the screws! YUCK.

#1 might be the simplest... but will involve 100 new holes through the hull/deck fiberglass which will inevitably see water getting at the screws! in addition to the old rivets which required to be cut off and sealed over properly. #1 makes for a more attractive termination at the receivers with #2 &#3 a veritable bitch to do a clean looking job. But # 1 will have probably the most robust rr and the better looking joints and grain.

I have lots of design drawings for this project! That was not hard.

Thoughts?
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Old 19-11-2015, 19:40   #35
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

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Nicholson58, yours sounds like ours--the original steam bent oak was a single thickness of wood--huge. I think they bent it in place and then shaped it. But on replacing it, we laminated 3 layers of mahogany and they were thru bolted to a 2x8 plank that runs inside the (wooden boat's) frames. Very stout. Your wood sounds like IPE wood.
I used to cut wood and hauled to the mill. Green white oak is extremely easy to bend and will eventually harden to shape as it dries. I think this is true for many fresh cut green lumbers. Our toe and splash rails were all applied green at the Camper works in England in 1983. Not possible with imported wood in the US now since all imported wood must be kiln dried now. I also found that the usual tropical hardwoods do not respond well to a steam tunnel once kiln dried.

Jarah is not quite as dense as IPE. IPE would make great exposed trim if you could get it thick enough. Amazingly, IPE has a Young's modulus nearly the same as aluminum - explains why it can't be bent.
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Old 21-11-2015, 05:57   #36
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

panama .. has anyone found the pvc rub rails in panama ???? i took mine off as were old and not repair able ,, in a mooring , the local dock is low where i fuel up so far not having rub rails not a problem ,, any real reason i should replace them ???
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Old 21-02-2016, 16:37   #37
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

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Ours is a 1984 Camper & Nicholson 58 with 3-1/2 wide X 2-1/2 tall trapezoid cross section spalsh. Port side was lost in IVAN by the PO. We've been contemplating a replacement for several years with lots of other important items also in line. I seriously look forward to getting it replaced. It does keep the splash lower and keep the damage down.

I tried a plastic facsimile but was unable to make it work. Even cut to shape, it curled uncontrollably from residual internals stresses. In that section, it was too stiff and unworkable. I had to throw it all out.


I finally found Jarah planks I could cut to the cross section and hull curve. I used an electric hand plane for final shaping. Its tough to attach because many of the original nuts embedded in the hull were loose, lost or damaged. I am embedding threaded anchors (M10) between the inner an outer hull skins using Marine Tex and filled epoxy. The final outer edge gets a solid SS 1" half-round. I also used the Jarah for the toe rail 1-1/4" x 3-1/2" cut to the curve. The splash is about 18 inches below the toe rail. Jarah is ridiculously hard and dense.


I have many boat neighbors who have used various plastic lumber but at 35 tons, we would crush the stuff. (See Maggie O'Katie- plastic rails & splash.)
I am looking for a wood rubrail for my Hinckley B 40. I would like information on purchasing your products. Can you please send a quote to Joebrasfield61@gmail.com.
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Old 21-02-2016, 20:20   #38
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Re: Rub rail question / plastic lumber

Here is the update on our Jarah planks. All are installed now. I acquired M10 SS threaded inserts which I embedded in Marine Tex for bolting to the hull. I used a template to transfer the hull shape to the heavy Jarah planks and had a local mill works band saw these to my pencil lines. I used an electric plane to shape the trapezoid cross section and the final fit of the curve to the hull. I used a hand-held saws-all to make the overlap joint. After bolting to the hull, I filled the overlap joints with black 3M 4200. In the spring, we will final finish the outsides and paint with white epoxy. A 1" solid SS round cap will be added. The sections pictured are 2-1/2 inches thick and 3=1/2 inches wide. Bolts are M10

There are many sources for hard wood. In Michigan, try Johnson's Workbench. Others abound in the Grand Rapids area where we live. I was fortunate to have a source for old Jarah from a woodworker friend. I understand it is now controlled and hard to get. I think you can find IPE on line as lumber if you do a Google search. IPE is possibly better than Jarah as it is exceptionaly hard and weather resistant. Both of these woods resist sun bleaching without any treatment.
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