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Old 07-07-2013, 16:18   #1
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Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

Hi all,
After spending dozens of hours researching about paints, and desperately trying to avoid Awlgrip for it's absolutely outrageous cost (they trick you with a "cheap" $200/gal paint, but then, add all other required products, and it becomes ugly...) I found exactly what I want: IMRON.

But... (there is always a but)
I'm having a very hard time finding out whether I can apply it by rolling and tipping and still produce a good finish.

Between the myths that Imron is an automotive paint or not a marine paint (which was true 30 years ago but not anymore) and the myth that roll and tip applications cannot match sprayed ones, it is very hard to discover the truth. So as always when in doubt, I'm seeking the knowledge of this amazing forum.

So, anybody actually DID IT (and has pictures or testimony to share)?
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:44   #2
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

If you use Imron, you should be aware that you are going to need a retarder as well as a catalyst. Imron from the automotive world will get tacky almost immediately. Imron also has fewer solids than Sterling or Awlgrip. It's the solids that give the killer shine. So in that regard, it's one reason Imron is cheaper that Awlgrip. One might say , you get what you pay for.
The more retarder you add the thinner it gets and on and on. I have heard of people rolling on one of the Imron products, as there is more than one but I have not seen it.
As a suggestion, Valspar makes a 2x poly that is meant to be brushed or rolled straight from the can without retarder or thinner for under $100 per gal. including catalyst and it has more solids than Imron. This stuff is sold at my local auto paint store.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:11   #3
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by decca View Post
Hi all,
After spending dozens of hours researching about paints, and desperately trying to avoid Awlgrip for it's absolutely outrageous cost (they trick you with a "cheap" $200/gal paint, but then, add all other required products, and it becomes ugly...) I found exactly what I want: IMRON.

But... (there is always a but)
I'm having a very hard time finding out whether I can apply it by rolling and tipping and still produce a good finish.

Between the myths that Imron is an automotive paint or not a marine paint (which was true 30 years ago but not anymore) and the myth that roll and tip applications cannot match sprayed ones, it is very hard to discover the truth. So as always when in doubt, I'm seeking the knowledge of this amazing forum.

So, anybody actually DID IT (and has pictures or testimony to share)?
Yes, been there done that and got the tee shirt to prove it.

As suggested Imron needs a retarder, or you'll be brushing little balls. You can brush two part polyurethanes, but it is likely you will be able to see faint brush lines in the finish product.

Also as noted, the reason why Awlgrip is so expensive is because it is really good paint that stays glossy for a very long time. If you want long lasting paint that looks ok, you might also check in Tnemec paints. These are used by the State of Washington to paint bridges, and it is as good a paint as you can find - just won't give you yacht quality gloss. It is quite inexpensive, or was the last time I bought it. Tnemec Industrial Coatings and Architectural Coatings
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Old 07-07-2013, 19:08   #4
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

I can't understand why everybody is so afraid of the spray gun these days, so many threads on roll and tip. Doing roll and tip jobs well is much harder and takes more practice to learn than shooting some topcoat, which is by far the shortest and easiest part of the whole job. Buy a cheap gun, rent a compressor if you don't own one, and squirt some paint on there. Imron is particularly easy to shoot, though its not the best paint. I wouldn't recommend rolling it. It does wet sand and buff OK if you blow it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 20:24   #5
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

In the short run, the spray rig is more costly than brushes. Too, a lack of experience and even the perception (gotten mostly from anecdote) that the spray gun is tricky and finicky is all it takes for most people to avoid the rig.

Some boat owners (most?) think they won't need the spray rig more than on occasion which makes it even more costly to inventory. However, the fact is, once one has the rig they find all kinds of use for it.

On YouTube there is a series by a shop owner in Santa Cruz, California. He's a Hobie cat dealer or some such. His series of videos are step by step for all, from new beginner to professional. Anyway, he highly recommends the el cheapo guns from Home Depot ($15-30 or so). Spraying is not magic, it's not difficult, and it yields great & wonderful results. But it requires practice and lacking the rig means no practice.

Imagine a 2 day job becoming a two hour job and being even more beautiful? Hence, the spray rig.
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Old 07-07-2013, 20:34   #6
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

I have never worked in a boat yard that would let you spray paint without either moving the boat to the south 40 or building a shelter of some sort. I certainly would not want anyone spraying near me.
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Old 07-07-2013, 20:42   #7
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
In the short run, the spray rig is more costly than brushes. Too, a lack of experience and even the perception (gotten mostly from anecdote) that the spray gun is tricky and finicky is all it takes for most people to avoid the rig.


I suppose this is what people think, but it's silly. When I roll and tip I use brushes that are more expensive than a cheap gun, by a substantial margin. And that doesn't include the cost of disposables like roller covers and trays, and the extra solvent required for cleaning brushes (lots). $50 buys a serviceable gun, and compressor rentals are cheap too. Half a roll of 20' wide Shark Skin will mask off your whole boat. And I tend to put a paint job in a shed regardless of spray or roll. It's the only pro option. You can't paint in direct sunlight and then let dew fall on it overnight. Plus you need dust control.
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Old 07-07-2013, 20:46   #8
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

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I have never worked in a boat yard that would let you spray paint without either moving the boat to the south 40 or building a shelter of some sort. I certainly would not want anyone spraying near me.
Rightly so. But think of the superior results you'll get and for less cost. A job done right....

Heck, I have been in yards were to water spray and scrape the bottom immediately after hauling out it was required to erect a barrier. You may want to do that anyway depending upon the winds and weather.
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Old 07-07-2013, 20:59   #9
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

It may be silly but there is that perception to combat. The layman is apt to put more credence to their own misbegotten perception than that of the professional. Part of the duty of the professional is to educate the layman. It's a lonely job and often frustrating, but if you win only one convert, their thanks and accolades is enough. Go forth, Minaret, educate the masses.
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Old 07-07-2013, 22:03   #10
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

I've painted stuff with crappy spray guns, air systems that pump as much water as they do air, spray booths were the light is no better than being outside etc. etc., so unless you have all the right stuff, spraying is not absoulty the best way for a boat. For a car or an airplane with lots curves and edges, then there is little question, a spray gun is your only choice. For the large flat surfaces of a hull it's not very hard to paint with a roller and perhaps a brush. Lots of spray jobs I've seen suck pretty bad with dry spots, runs, fish eyes, orange peel. The primer job needs to be much better with spray also. So no, spraying is not the only answer.
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Old 08-07-2013, 00:23   #11
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Originally Posted by decca View Post
Hi all,
After spending dozens of hours researching about paints, and desperately trying to avoid Awlgrip for it's absolutely outrageous cost (they trick you with a "cheap" $200/gal paint, but then, add all other required products, and it becomes ugly...) I found exactly what I want: IMRON.

But... (there is always a but)
I'm having a very hard time finding out whether I can apply it by rolling and tipping and still produce a good finish.

Between the myths that Imron is an automotive paint or not a marine paint (which was true 30 years ago but not anymore) and the myth that roll and tip applications cannot match sprayed ones, it is very hard to discover the truth. So as always when in doubt, I'm seeking the knowledge of this amazing forum.

So, anybody actually DID IT (and has pictures or testimony to share)?
I do this kind of work professionally and here's my input:
If you want a rock hard exterior paint that you can roll and tip use AlexSeal. It's not too expensive, is a 2 part and has really clear instructions for how much catalyst and reducer you need to get good results. You can have a stipple-free finish if the temp isn't too hot and it's thinned right. It also wet sands and buffs out quite easily. I would prime, sand with 240, paint 2 coats with a light scuff in between, wet sand with 600/800/1200/1500/2000 and the buff out with 3m imperial and finally 3m finesse it. You'll have results like the photo below.

In regards to spraying, these paints are linear polyurethanes and you'll need a separate oxygen supply to spray them safely. While the results can be better, my recommendation is to just tent off the boat and roll it out.

Good luck and if you do spray spend a lot of time practicing and mask everything off really tight.
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Old 21-06-2017, 06:56   #12
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

So I have a Laser that I need to refinish and was going to go with Awlgrip despite all of the debate over it. But now I'm being told that it's for above the waterline only. Is that correct, and is that true for all of these?

I just want something I can roll and tip over the entire hull that will last. Was going to re-gelcoat, but got scared off of that idea.
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Old 21-06-2017, 07:26   #13
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

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Originally Posted by Daves Laser View Post
So I have a Laser that I need to refinish and was going to go with Awlgrip despite all of the debate over it. But now I'm being told that it's for above the waterline only. Is that correct, and is that true for all of these?

I just want something I can roll and tip over the entire hull that will last. Was going to re-gelcoat, but got scared off of that idea.
https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...t.do?docId=183
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Old 21-06-2017, 08:48   #14
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Re: Roll and tip Imron (DuPont) paint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves Laser View Post
So I have a Laser that I need to refinish and was going to go with Awlgrip despite all of the debate over it. But now I'm being told that it's for above the waterline only. Is that correct, and is that true for all of these?

I just want something I can roll and tip over the entire hull that will last. Was going to re-gelcoat, but got scared off of that idea.
Awlgrip will bubble under water if you mean wet for extended periods of time. Laid over an epoxy primer it resists it well enough for a boat that doesn't site in the water. Used on dinghies all the time, as is Perfection paints, which might be a bit easier for you to apply. Here's a pretty good video on the topic of repairing a dinghy, then painting with Perfection.

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