Rod Or Wire Rigging?

[fisherman.ben]

thinking about replacing my stays, was looking at rod rigging, and as i'm sure some of you out there have it, was wondering what are the differences between rod and wire.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by fisherman.ben

thinking about replacing my stays, was looking at rod rigging, and as i'm sure some of you out there have it, was wondering what are the differences between rod and wire.

Rod is significantly more expensive, that's the biggest difference, lol.

Rod's biggest advantages are that it is lighter than wire and lasts longer. That said, the lifetime cost of wire is still significantly lower. If you have wire then stick with it unless you want to race and have money to burn.

[neilpride]

Wire fail with a warning, rod nop, rod break sudenly, rod strecht is really low, wire is easy to coil, rod is hard to coil, wire is cheaper, rod is expensive, hard to found in remote locations a rigger who can rehead rod ends, wire stays are easy to replace in remote locations, wire can fitted with stalock or swages terminals, rod need the popular Navtec terminations....wire is easy to inspect , rod is hard to evaluate without dismantle the whole rig.... saying that , if you plan to extensive cruising, wire is the way to go, if you look more at the perfomance side , weight, strenght, rod is your answer, if you look more deeply at the preformance side, dynema, carbón , synthetic is the answer..... Cheers...

[Boatyarddog]

Wire is much easier for the DIYer to size and install.
Rod is Good for performance applications.


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[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Wire fail with a warning, rod nop, rod break sudenly, rod strecht is really low, wire is easy to coil, rod is hard to coil, wire is cheaper, rod is expensive, hard to found in remote locations a rigger who can rehead rod ends, wire stays are easy to replace in remote locations, wire can fitted with stalock or swages terminals, rod need the popular Navtec terminations....wire is easy to inspect , rod is hard to evaluate without dismantle the whole rig.... saying that , if you plan to extensive cruising, wire is the way to go, if you look more at the perfomance side , weight, strenght, rod is your answer, if you look more deeply at the preformance side, dynema, carbón , synthetic is the answer..... Cheers...

Sent from my iPad SV Cloud Duster

[robert sailor]

Some folks may not be aware that really well known cruising boats like the Valiant 40 and the Niagara 35 and 42 were all rod rigged. The new rod is a real nice product as long as your pocket book can take the hit. I don't know what this groups experience has been but the new wire being produced these days does not seem to last like the old stuff.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Some folks may not be aware that really well known cruising boats like the Valiant 40 and the Niagara 35 and 42 were all rod rigged. The new rod is a real nice product as long as your pocket book can take the hit. I don't know what this groups experience has been but the new wire being produced these days does not seem to last like the old stuff.

And even Swans, Baltics, etc.. i dont argue about how nice is rod rigging in fact is nice yeah! but frankly in a cruising boat with no perfomance in mind is a waste , wire sources vary from place to place, we order the wire from Belgium, is ISO estándar and real SS, so far no complaints and we see how our wire age in a Garcia we rigged 8 years ago, not bad , swages in good order and wire to, if someone is concerned about weird wire just ask the source of the wire, anything close to Asia is something to suspect...

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Some folks may not be aware that really well known cruising boats like the Valiant 40 and the Niagara 35 and 42 were all rod rigged. The new rod is a real nice product as long as your pocket book can take the hit. I don't know what this groups experience has been but the new wire being produced these days does not seem to last like the old stuff.

That's one of the reasons I'm not in a rush to replace my current wire rigging. The other of course is cost but until I can be 100% certain that the new wire is not some cheap Chinese knockoff I'll stick with what I have.

[sailvayu]

The recommended replacement interval for rod rigging is half that of wire. Also if you replace wire with rod you will have to replace all the mast fittings to except the ball ends in rod rigging. Personally I think rod rigging is best left to the racing boats but that is just me I am sure some will not agree.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Some folks may not be aware that really well known cruising boats like the Valiant 40 and the Niagara 35 and 42 were all rod rigged. The new rod is a real nice product as long as your pocket book can take the hit. I don't know what this groups experience has been but the new wire being produced these days does not seem to last like the old stuff.

I have the original rod rigging on my Valiant, and believe it or not it's 28 years old. Has been reheaded once years ago and I will have it inspected again soon. A little known fact (I should not call it a fact as I don't know for sure, TBH) is that there are no documented failures of Navtec rod rigging other than at the ends.

That said, if I replace it, which I will before I take off for good, it will be with wire given the virtual impossibility of replacing a broken rod in remote areas.

Personally, I think they put rod on Valiants as more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. It fit the "performance cruiser" branding. Rod on a relatively short-masted cutter rigged heavy ocean cruiser is sort of like putting a spoiler on a Hummer.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by sailvayu

The recommended replacement interval for rod rigging is half that of wire. ....

I found that a bit odd and have a look at what are the recommendations from Navtec regarding life span of rod rigging:

" As a general rule, Navtec uses a figure of 40,000 sailing miles as a time when a thorough inspection should be done. This would include inspection of all the rod heads and end fittings. If any of the heads are cracked or worn, the rod should at least be reheaded. That doesn't mean that the rod itself would need to be replaced; that would depend on whether the turnbuckles had enough stroke to compensate for a shorter piece of rod. In a good installation, the rod will typically last significantly longer than the heads on the end of the rod.

After a thorough inspection with no problems found, depending on the installation, it may be reasonable to expect the rod to last another 40,000 miles.....One item that Navtec does recommend replacing after 10 years of use or 40,000 miles (whichever comes first) is the turnbuckle screws. ..."

Navtec Rigging Service

80000nm is a long time in what regards average cruisers even if with a full inspection at 40000nm with substitution of turnbuckle screws by the middle.

Riggers normally recommend the substitution of rigging if older then 10 years, rod or wire, unless it has been serviced regularly.

"We manufacture both wire and rod rigging and offer an impartial rigging inspection for the general condition and any alignment or articulation issues, but we cannot recommend what the remaining working life is to any extent because of the un-measurable amount of input factors. In most cases we will recommend that if the rigging is known to be ten years old or older, and particularly without any form of service, to replace it."

Balustrade Systems | Tie Rods | Reckmann, Liros, UK | Advanced Rigging

Why do you say that "the recommended replacement interval for rod rigging is half that of wire" ?

[neilpride]

You miss this part ...


. What loads are put on each of the pieces of rod in comparison to each piece of rod's breaking strength;
2. The sailing conditions in which that the boat has predominantly sailed;
3. The amount of care and maintenance that has been given to the rigging;
4. The amount of time and/or miles the boat has been in service;
5. The severity of the marine environment the particular boat has experienced (fresh vs. salt and temperate vs. tropical


40.000 miles , heavy air , light tipical tradewinds , racing? many variables, a rig rigged with wire can last a circunnavigation with no problems so far , same as a rod rigging setup, wire show signs of warning before something bad happen , probably thats why wire is replaced soon v rod, rod if you follow the inspections and recomendations can last longer, now if you miss that part , guaranted a serious problem.... someone mention rod just fail at the coldheads, quite true and not, the bronze thread cones at the terminal fittings can show cracks to, i have a couple of this cracked at the workshop... 40.000 miles without inspections is not in my book, but each in their own.!!!!!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

You miss this part ...


. What loads are put on each of the pieces of rod in comparison to each piece of rod's breaking strength;
2. The sailing conditions in which that the boat has predominantly sailed;
3. The amount of care and maintenance that has been given to the rigging;
4. The amount of time and/or miles the boat has been in service;
5. The severity of the marine environment the particular boat has experienced (fresh vs. salt and temperate vs. tropical


40.000 miles , heavy air , light tipical tradewinds , racing? many variables, a rig rigged with wire can last a circunnavigation with no problems so far , same as a rod rigging setup, wire show signs of warning before something bad happen , probably thats why wire is replaced soon v rod, rod if you follow the inspections and recomendations can last longer, now if you miss that part , guaranted a serious problem.... someone mention rod just fail at the coldheads, quite true and not, the bronze thread cones at the terminal fittings can show cracks to, i have a couple of this cracked at the workshop... 40.000 miles without inspections is not in my book, but each in their own.!!!!!

I did not miss that. I posted Navtec recommendations regarding what they call " general rule". Obviously a general rule means average use. A racing boat extensively raced would obviously need more maintenance.

Again, not my opinion, but Navtec recommendation even if in my opinion they have the experience and expertise to know of what they are talking about.

[transmitterdan]

Why is everyone worried about replacing a rod in far away places? Today it is simple enough to carry a synthetic kit and they can be rigged easier than wire. One size can fit nearly all standing rigging components (maybe not the head stay). The replacement doesn't have to circumnavigate. It just has to get you back to civilization sometime.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Why is everyone worried about replacing a rod in far away places? Today it is simple enough to carry a synthetic kit and they can be rigged easier than wire. One size can fit nearly all standing rigging components (maybe not the head stay). The replacement doesn't have to circumnavigate. It just has to get you back to civilization sometime.

Im not, quite true Rod is inspected before any serious long cruising in mind, but the fact is lots of cruisers are worry about the failure point or the chance to have a serious failure in the rigging without warning, thats one of the focal points with rod, i doubt anyone out there is going to see a crack in a cold head without dismantle the ends terminations , then the synthetic kit like you say dont make any sense , it fail or dont fail, if it fail , chances to loose the mast are great, if dont fail you can keep going, is like a fuse, you never know when or where is going to fail!!! unless you have your rod maintenance Schedule in order,,,, for peace of mind is good to have the 40.000 miles shorted , is another piece of boat gear to take care , but in this case the wire is more forgiven... Keep in mind that many Navtec uppers are discontinuous , fitting a piece of synthetic right there seems imposible unless you plan to motor in flat seas to reach civilization....